Oops. Wrong Epifanes


Brendon_t

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Recently I started finishing an outdoor table that will reside on my new patio area. Decided to go Epifanes over cpes. Planned on a few good coats of gloss then matt over it to knock down the very high shine.

First two coats on and wouldn't ya know it, it's not very shiney. In fact, it's not shiney at all. Checked the can... Duh, I ordered the matte finish in the big jar. 

For those with knowledge of the product. Would you continue building coats with the matte or bring it back down and go the original plan? I'm not sure as to why people start with gloss but I'm assuming that widely used schedule is there for a reason. 

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1 minute ago, Brendon_t said:

Recently I started finishing an outdoor table that will reside on my new patio area. Decided to go Epifanes over cpes. Planned on a few good coats of gloss then matt over it to knock down the very high shine.

First two coats on and wouldn't ya know it, it's not very shiney. In fact, it's not shiney at all. Checked the can... Duh, I ordered the matte finish in the big jar. 

For those with knowledge of the product. Would you continue building coats with the matte or bring it back down and go the original plan? I'm not sure as to why people start with gloss but I'm assuming that widely used schedule is there for a reason. 

Didn't Marc cover this in one of his outdoor finishing videos? You could try the company and see what they have to say. I agree i especially see the gloss than matte with epifanes more so than with any other finish. I don't really buy into it for thin finishes like ARS i don't think they build enough of a film for it to be noticeable outside of inspecting under a magnifying glass.

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What Brendon is explaining is that Epifanes recommends a few coats of gloss before switching to satin, if so desired (it's in their instructions)...when Spags and Cremona were using it for outdoor projects they talked about this on the podcast and I thought the takeaway was that the gloss was obviously superior at reflecting light, so an equal number of coats of satin would not protect the wood from the sun quite as well.  If I were in your shoes I'd continue and just be sure you have plenty of satin on there (6 coats at least)....reason being you're either gonna strip/sand back to bare wood now, or in a couple years when it starts to fail...might as well let the experiment run at this point.

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You can buff the finish after it's cured with a grey Scotch bride pad to bring a dull finish up to satin. If you follow that by buffing with a white pad you can bring it up to a semi gloss. I use my RO sander but you can do it by hand if you bring plenty of elbow grease. Festool has pads that work on their sanders.

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Going off memory here, but IIRC, the matte finish is meant for boat interiors, and as such has little UV protection.  So build up with gloss for UV, finish with matte for visuals.

 

But check with Epifanes.  Worst case, maybe a few coats of gloss over what you have, then finish with matte?

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I called Epifanes sand although they did confirm that the most used finishing schedule is matte over gloss, I was told the quantity of flatteners is the main difference.  The woman I spoke to sounded quite knowledgeable about the finishes and said in my case, she would continue with the matte and once the thickness of the finish is achieved, I can buff it up or down Sheen easily. 

Given the price at nearly a hundred a can, I'm going to stay the course and will report back.

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14 hours ago, AceHoleInOne said:

 

Hmmm---ya think they sell more cans of finish that way? :rolleyes: 

 

-Ace-

 

Absolutely. I'm also thinking there may be a legit reason. I've got 2 coats down per side and I swear the matte is not as crisp looking on the wood already. I'm going to go one more coat on the top and if that doesn't change, I'm changing.

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  • 2 weeks later...

So back to this to report findings. 

After another full strength coat as directed I was not at all happy with the look of the finish. I can't quite speak to the exact problem, but I swear, the finish was not nearly as clear as it should be.

I called Epifanes back and spoke with Doug who really seemed to know what's up.

After running him through the situation, his unfortunate recommendation was to bring it back close to the wood, not exactly a full strip and start now building with gloss. Apparently the matte finish does not quite produce a film, but more an almost film with  micro orange peel so to speak. Building a lot of coats of that can wife a fuzzy look. Damn.

I'm going to strap a 220g abralon foam sanding pad on and go over the entire face then hand sand back the edges. Not sanding the bottom.

At one coat ever day per side, I may have a finished picture by labor day

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  • 4 weeks later...
Recently I started finishing an outdoor table that will reside on my new patio area. Decided to go Epifanes over cpes. Planned on a few good coats of gloss then matt over it to knock down the very high shine.
First two coats on and wouldn't ya know it, it's not very shiney. In fact, it's not shiney at all. Checked the can... Duh, I ordered the matte finish in the big jar. 
For those with knowledge of the product. Would you continue building coats with the matte or bring it back down and go the original plan? I'm not sure as to why people start with gloss but I'm assuming that widely used schedule is there for a reason. 
There are solids in matte finish varnish. Thet is why they tell you to stir it, to redistribute the settled solids The more coats you apply, the more opaque the finish becomes and the more it hides the grain. By using clear for the under coats you maintain clarity until the end and one coat of matte or satin knocks down the gloss with minimal hiding of the grain. The alternative is to rub out a final gloss cost to slightly dull the finish

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

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