Walnut Transtint Dye on Cherry

[Isaac]

I'm making a coffee table for a friend. He would like a dark walnut color. Problem is, I just finished a major walnut project and the material is just too darn expensive for me right now. So I built the piece out of Cherry. I know cherry is beautiful on its own and I know it darkens with age, but I'd like to deliver something that is a bit darker on arrival. To that end, I purchased some transtint dye, which I've never worked with before. 

I mixed up some dye with 50% Water, 50% Denatured Alcohol and applied with a rag. It seems to darken the wood immediately and dries very fast, but it does seem to be a bit uneven, with dark and light areas. 

Should I be looking at applying a pre-conditioner of some sort? 

Am I barking up the wrong tree? should I be looking at a regular stain product instead?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[gee-dub]

First off, kudos for using a test board and not experimenting with your finished piece.  This is not often the case for reasons that escape me.  I mix Transtint with water or with alcohol but, not with both.  Was there a reason for this?

From the Transtint website (their CAPS not mine):

"TO USE AS A DYE STAIN – Mix with tap or distilled water for an economical, non-flammable stain. OR mix with alcohol for a fast-drying, non-grain raising stain."

Moving on, dye will color everything but, the absorption rate due to material density can still make things appear blotchy.  Don't get me wrong, I use dyes to avoid blotch or to match inconsistent tones if I use a colorant at all.  I would try a lighter mix and choose alcohol for the fast dry time/non-grain raising characteristics.  Each application should darken the area to the point where you reach saturation of the color of the dye.  That is, a light brown dye will not become a dark brown dye no matter how many applications you make.

All that being said, I proclaim myself to NOT be a finishing expert .  I do think Transtint "walnut" is too dark a dye for making cherry look pre-aged.  Walnut has a bit more blue than a natural cherry color for me.  Watco makes a cherry colored wiping finish that I have had good luck with when wanting to sun tan cherry without setting it out in the sun (I have had too many failed attempts at this). 

I should also say that a few years back I started using dyes to set walnut at the color it has when oil finished.  I do this to retain that rich just oiled look and avoid the natural lightening of walnut over time.  For cherry you are doing the opposite but, remember that it will continue to darken with exposure to light.  Mildly treated areas can actually end up darker than your darkened areas after a couple of years.

All this blathering is just my opinion and others will have their own.

[Chet]

It could be that what you are seeing is the tendency for cherry to be  blotchy when "stained".  Over time when the cherry darkens the blotchiness will fade or completely disappear.  I don't know how dark you want it at delivery but something that I have done with cherry is to apply a light coat of garnet shellac before my top coat.

This was a cherry trunk with garnet shellac before it darkened with age.  

 

 

[Isaac]

2 hours ago, gee-dub said:

For cherry you are doing the opposite but, remember that it will continue to darken with exposure to light.  Mildly treated areas can actually end up darker than your darkened areas after a couple of years.

All this blathering is just my opinion and others will have their own.

Thanks for all the blathering, I thought I read somewhere about the 50-50 water/alcohol mix, but can't find it now, so perhaps it was a mad scientist creation of my own device.

As for your comment about the darkening, all of the cherry will darken, whether or not I dye it, correct?

When this is all done, I'd like a dark walnut look, so I was hoping that If I dyed the cherry moderately dark, it would continue to naturally darken with age, until the right look is achieved. Do you think that is feasible?

 

2 hours ago, Chet said:

It could be that what you are seeing is the tendency for cherry to be  blotchy when "stained".  Over time when the cherry darkens the blotchiness will fade or completely disappear.  I don't know how dark you want it at delivery but something that I have done with cherry is to apply a light coat of garnet shellac before my top coat.

Thanks Chet. I made an additional sample with a larger piece of scrap and I think the blotchiness is less prominent, so It might be a case of not seeing the forest for the trees.

I will try some more samples before I settle on anything. 

[Chestnut]

After you dye it i should still darken with age and will get even darker. I don't think the dye will stop that process.

Cherry blotches....ALOT. You might be fighting an uphill battle where you might want to consider sealing the cherry completely and applying a tinted finish.

[Chet]

4 minutes ago, Isaac said:

As for your comment about the darkening, all of the cherry will darken, whether or not I dye it, correct?

Cherry naturally darkens over time even once any type of finish is applied.  You can put a clear finish over cherry that is real light in color when you are working with it and still end up darkening over time.

 

[gee-dub]

When I said "Mildly treated areas can actually end up darker than your darkened areas after a couple of years." it was not good phrasing.  The naturally darkening of the cherry will occur.  The dye may change color over time but, will not magically track the cherry's color changes.

 

Was that better . . . or worse?  

This has the Watco Cherry oil finish on it followed by an amber-ish oil/varnish top coat.  This is a hand/rag applied finish.

[wdwerker]

The sun will darken the cherry quite a bit in one afternoon. Just watch out for shadows. 

[AceHoleInOne]

Cherry blotches. The way to prevent blotching on blotchy woods is to spray. Mix the TT with either DNA or lacquer thinner. That way the color sits on top of the wood. As the solvents flash off quickly, leaving the color sitting on top of the wood. If you spray too wet. The wood fibers will pull color deep causing blotch.  Spray light dusty coats in a crosshatch pattern. 

A preconditioner will help should you choose to hand apply. But getting dark may be hard to do since the pre-conditioner will seal the wood.

-Ace-