Curved-lid Treasure Boxes

[Von]

I'm getting the itch to take a break from working on my shop and build something, so I'm going to make two jewelry/treasure boxes for my nieces. They seem like a nice "getting back into it" project and I made one (pictured below) about ten years ago for my father-in-law as a thank you for giving me a bunch of cherry wood (it is made from some of that cherry wood), so I've done it before though I can't remember a thing about how I did so. My wife inherited the box when my FiL passed so I do have it for a model.

I would like to add my respective niece's initials into the top of each box, which will be a new process to me so I welcome suggestions on that front. The curve on the top is fairly mild, so I think I could do lettering ~1/4" deep and then put the curve onto the top while leaving the lettering. The initials are luckily all straight lines so I could also cut something by hand and then fill with a dark filler of some sort (epoxy).

 

 

[wtnhighlander]

If you carve the letters before curving the lid, just be sure the walls of the lettering cavities are perpendicular, otherwise the letters will have some waviness.

[Mark J]

Trim router and letter template?  Is the lid thick enough for a 1/4" groove?

[Von]

On 6/10/2024 at 9:22 AM, Mark J said:

Trim router and letter template?  Is the lid thick enough for a 1/4" groove?

Yes, the top starts out at 3/4" thick and the curve drops off 1/4" from center to the edge (~3" of distance). There is a 1/4" recess in the center of the bottom to strengthen the illusion of a curve, so there is at least 1/4" of material from edge-to-edge in the center of the top that isn't touched and I think the top is at least 3/8" thick at its thinest point (somewhere about 2/3 from the center to the edge).

The curve is on top is shallow enough that if I keep my letters 1-1.5" tall I think the slope from center to top/bottom of the letter will only be 1/16"-3/32".

[pkinneb]

Very cool!

[Von]

Got some shop time this morning. Thanks for all the suggestions. What I decided to try was finding a font I like and printing my nieces initials such that the stroke of the letters was 5/32" to match my 1/4" router bit bushing. What I came up with was comic sans 234. I would not have guessed comic sans would be what I would end up with, but at this size I like the simple but informal lines. I glue sticked the print outs to a pieces of 1/4" plywood and cut out the letters like shallow, weirdly shaped thru mortises - forstner bit, chisels, and sandpaper. I bought an 1/8" chisel and some gouges for this, but they turned out to be unnecessary.

Experimental template routing. I've learned with a small bit and a bushing to take 3-4 passes and clear the saw dust between each - with the bushing there just is no place for the dust to go. Ignore the K in the upper right - I didn't tighten my bit enough and it started slipping.

And epoxy applied. Hopefully tomorrow I'll have time to see how it cleans up and how it works when I put a curve on the face of the wood. I bought a tube of Gorilla epoxy for this test and used the whole tube. Ordered some Total Boat and pigment power for next run - hope that is thin enough to pour, which will make this a little easier. I bought the power as I understand it is less inclined to soak into the wood like dye.

 

[Ron Swanson Jr.]

Looks like you're on the right track!

[gee-dub]

Sweet looking boxes Von.  I am between projects and that usually means enough scraps for some boxes and frames. Yours are inspiring.

[Von]

Epoxy still feels a little rubbery this morning. Since I got stuff going on the next couple of days, I'm going to give it those days to cure and hope it feels less like something that will make a sticky mess when I try to work it.

My plan is to flush trim the excess epoxy with a router and then sand. I welcome thoughts from anyone with experience working the stuff.

[Mark J]

It looks like the epoxy is quite thick, so that's going to prolong the cure.  I assume by "flush trim" you mean something like a router flattening jig/sled.  

If you want the epoxy surface to be clear you will probably need to sand to p600-p800 grit.

[pkinneb]

What @Mark J said above. Also do not start to work it until you are 100% confident its totally cured or you will have a mess on your hands that won't be easy to fix.

[gee-dub]

On 6/27/2024 at 6:10 AM, Von said:

Epoxy still feels a little rubbery this morning. Since I got stuff going on the next couple of days, I'm going to give it those days to cure and hope it feels less like something that will make a sticky mess when I try to work it.

My plan is to flush trim the excess epoxy with a router and then sand. I welcome thoughts from anyone with experience working the stuff.

I had some West Systems stuff that remained just a bit soft for days.  Turned out that although the packaging said it was "sandable" when cured there was no way.  It would gouge, heat friction fail, and pill up.  They sent me an alternative product that worked great other than the fact that I had to re-do the project.

[Von]

My first test turned out better than I expected. The epoxy was hard today and a few minutes with the ROS cleaned off the excess without issue. The epoxy does however have lots of little voids, I assume because it was too thick for air bubbles to escape. I went ahead and cut a shallow slant through the closer part of the face (the "Z") using a tall fence on the table saw and sanded a gentle curve with no issues. I put some tung oil on it just to get a feel for what it would look like finished and am happy with the result if I ignore the pits from the voids.

For take 2, I got myself some pourable epoxy and some black pigment. Much easier to get into the letter, though I did learn two lessons: (1) level the piece first - I was able to level as I poured, but could have saved myself some stress leveling the piece before the pour (my bench is pretty level but not perfect), and (2) I need a heat gun to pop the bubbles that came to the surface (a lot more came after I took the photo). Will probably buy a heat gun tomorrow and do a 3rd test before I commit to my process.

[wtnhighlander]

Sounds like a good outcome. I have done a couple of small epoxy inlays similar to this. If you find a bubble or void that got past you when you start carving and sanding, it works well to fill them with a dab of 5-minute epoxy, especially when using the black pigment.

[gee-dub]

On 6/30/2024 at 7:29 PM, Von said:

The epoxy does however have lots of little voids, I assume because it was too thick for air bubbles to escape.

A light "brushing" with a propane torch flame will chase the bubble to the top rather quickly.  I would play with this on one of your test pieces.  It's one of those silly things you get a feel for pretty quickly but don't want to try for the first time on your "keeper".  I find the "soft" flame of the torch to be more effective (and faster) than something like a heat gun.  Just my experience.

[Von]

Test #2 was even better, just a few voids from the bubbles where they were deeper.  Will try one more time with @gee-dub's suggestion of a propane torch.

I do notice the sharp inside corners of my template are getting rounded by my bushing. The top and side look OK, a little more natural even, but the bottom is somewhat misshaped. I might make a new template for final product.

 

[Von]

And using the propane torch does the trick on removing voids. As others have suggested I used it on the lowest setting and just feathered the epoxy. I think a little patience in lettering the bubbles emerge is also helpful.  The photo is just sanded to 80 grit with some tung oil applied so I can get an idea of how it looks. Note sure yet how I'll do the final finishing.

Spent some time picking out the lumber for the project. As is typical for me, this means working my way through my twisted cherry stash and finding the boards that will be flat enough when cut to length. Need to plane some down to 1/2" for the front, back, and box bottoms. My shop time ended before I got to that.

 

[pkinneb]

Nice!!

[Von]

Got the tops and boxes started today. Leaving the boxes long and will to cut to length.

Looks like the epoxy settled on the "K" - I'm guessing it soaked into the wood a little. Anyone have experience doing a secondary pour if I it's low enough it's no longer flush?

[Von]

Making progress. It did turn out the epoxy on the "K" was a little low, but not enough I couldn't sand it flush with an extra minute or two of sending. Lesson learned to circle back after ~30 minutes to top it off the pour in case it soaks in.

Shaping the sides, this taper cut on my table saw was it's absolute limit as it bogged down hard. This blade is fine, but should have used my dedicated cross-cut blade, sharper if nothing else. And maybe done it in increasing depth cuts now that I think about it.

Dyeing the sides was the last thing I did yesterday. Next tasks are sanding the rest of pieces, fine-tuning the fit of the lids, hinge mortising, and fitting the felt inserts into the bottoms before glue-up.

[Mark J]

I didn't think of this earlier, but in the turning world people will often use hot glue to make a dam to contain an epoxy pour on a curved surface.  A bead of glue around your letters might have allowed for a slightly excess pour.  But the excess would need to be sanded off, so maybe no real advantage. 

[Von]

Getting there, though I am reminded how much I hate installing hinges. In part my chisel skills need work, mainly I just don't have a process that I feel works well for me.

Next step is dry fitting the sides and tuning the reveal on the sides of the lids. I am really glad to have gotten more comfortable with my hand plane - that makes tuning the fit much easier.

[Von]

Marc's video on installing hinges was very useful. My mistake was trying to hold down the hinge and trace around it with my marking knife. Too hard for me to get it square that way. Using a marking gauge and combination square to lay it out I found much easier. Got them passable with a little clean up.

Next step was a dry fit and tuning the sides of the lid to fit. Mostly using the sled at the table saw with just a little at the sanding station for one corner where I'm apparently a little out of square. I didn't worry to much about making the reveal perfect - it's not very visible since the sides are so dark.

Sanded to 320 got the epoxy looking smooth. I used mineral spirits to clean the epoxy dust so I can see what is going on.

And I started the finishing process using wipe-on poly since I find it fairly mistake proof (famous last words).

 

[Von]

On 7/16/2024 at 4:22 PM, Von said:

And I started the finishing process using wipe-on poly since I find it fairly mistake proof (famous last words).

I should know better than to write something like this... Some issues I'm wrestling with:

I blew through my coat of finish and some of the black stain on my side pieces doing a light sand after my first coat of poly. Happened on the end grain which somehow seems more problematic, which baffles me a little since I would expect it to absorb more stain. So I had to step back on that piece and touch up the stain and remember to do a light touch.

The finish over the epoxy inlay shows scratches such that I have to sand to 1000G to make it look good. This leaves the surface so smooth I worry about subsequent coats adhering. I'm going to try leaving it a little rough and doing the serious polishing after the final coat.

Finally, while I like the look of the satin on my test pieces, now that I see it on the whole box, I want more gloss, so I'm switching to my standard Minwax water-based semi-gloss poly.  I think the switch from wipe-on to standard poly will also help me not ruin my stain.

Wish me luck.

[Ron Swanson Jr.]

On 7/18/2024 at 7:04 AM, Von said:

I should know better than to write something like this... Some issues I'm wrestling with:

I blew through my coat of finish and some of the black stain on my side pieces doing a light sand after my first coat of poly. Happened on the end grain which somehow seems more problematic, which baffles me a little since I would expect it to absorb more stain. So I had to step back on that piece and touch up the stain and remember to do a light touch.

The finish over the epoxy inlay shows scratches such that I have to sand to 1000G to make it look good. This leaves the surface so smooth I worry about subsequent coats adhering. I'm going to try leaving it a little rough and doing the serious polishing after the final coat.

Finally, while I like the look of the satin on my test pieces, now that I see it on the whole box, I want more gloss, so I'm switching to my standard Minwax water-based semi-gloss poly.  I think the switch from wipe-on to standard poly will also help me not ruin my stain.

Wish me luck.

Good luck!