Tablesaw Questions

[Derekkest]

Ok, so the wife wanted flooring. I said I needed a tablesaw to do that and it wouldnt be worth it, Next Christmas I got a table saw

Anyways, I have a machining background and have never been bothered by or dominated by any machine. You respect them, they respect you. But I gotta tell ya, the tablesaw bugs me a bit.

I usually only use it to rip lumber down to size and even then I wear the following:

Safety Glasses

Face Shield

Leather's I use with my chain saw

hard hat

sometimes my neighbors catchers vest, depending on what I am cutting.

You laugh, but im serious. I see people in videos just slide wood through like glass. Makes me want to puke!!! I received my wifts gift in the standard craftsman box with the standard craftsman direstions. In other words, it's not the greatest, but it made do for the flooring. I now am finding I need to make thinner and thinner cuts and this scares me.

What in your opinion can I do to make cutting on this monster easier? Keep in mind it is all stock.....Standard table, standard blade, no frills.

[Sac]

The first question would be what kind of table saw do you have? Model? Brand? That would help with a solution perhaps..

[Dyami Plotke]

It sounds like you're having an issue with blade/fence alignment. Have you tried aligning the blade and fence to the miter slots so that all three are parallel?

[Derekkest]

Its a craftsman. Dunno the model without going out to the shop. The slides are not machined as I have seen on some nice table saws, they are more or less formed(?).

I spose a better table saw is needed in "the plan" to make better cuts. I just dont feel safe using it for some reason.

[Sac]

I would start by doing like Dyami said, make sure that the blade is parallel to the miter slot, and then make sure that the fence is parallel with the miter slot as well. You and also check the runout on the arbor although I doubt that would make it as bad as you make it sound. Then just make sure that everything is clean and lubricated in some fashion. Also make sure that your blade is sharp. Good luck.

[PaulMarcel]

So I may not be tracking correctly, but does it cut well normally but you want a better solution for thin rips? Or are you having difficulty with the thin rips?

Assuming the saw is all calibrated correctly (all the parallels), you can cut narrow strips on the table saw. Since I use a push stick that's about 1/2" wide, I don't go more narrow than 5/8" between the blade and the fence.

If you need to go thinner, usually I'll (well go to the bandsaw but that's not your question) use the off-cut side.

Here's a cheezy set of pics I just took:

Here's the underside of the jig for reference; fits in the miter slot and allows the top part to pivot and lock in place.

To use it, put a ruler at your measurement on the offcut side of the ZCI (here I chose 1" for better photos). Bump a piece of scrap to the ruler then bump the pivoting head to touch it. Lock the head.

Now you are set for repeated narrow stock rips. Here's how it goes:

Put the scrap against the pivoting head, put your stock to cut against it, bump the fence up against your stock and lock it. It shouldn't be so squeezed in there... it should move easily with no gap.

Remove the scrap block and run the board.

Now repeat the last two steps (moving the fence each time) to get another strip.

Why the scrap block? Because you have that pivot point locked down. If you push your stock through and it binds between the fence and the pivot, you're stuck. By using the scrap in setup and in fence placement, but removing it for the run, you have no binding point.

Rockler sells a narrow stock rip thingy that accomplishes the same thing as this. If you get it, use the scrap piece like I showed here for the same safety reasons.

[daninhim]

Okay, first of all, it's good that you are fearful of the beast. If you weren't, you'd probably do something stupid. Like lose a thumb. Now, on that note, I'm not so sure it's such a good idea to have all that hockey gear hanging off you, as it's possible to lean in too far and catch something on the blade.

I had a Craftsman countertop table saw as my first saw, and it scared the living daylights out of me, so much so that I sold it for $40 at a yard sale a year after I bought it. I now have a 10" delta contractors saw and, while I'm very comfortable with it, I also have a healthy sense of fear. A couple of things help this:

1. Featherboards http://www.rockler.com/search_results.cfm?srch=usr&filter=featherboard

Featherboards, when used properly, can take away about 75% of that level of fear, because they doo a great job of holding the wood in place tight against the fence. Just remember it goes in front of the blade, not next to or behind the blade, as that would pinch the wood against the blade and cause a world of hurt.

2. G-r-r-ipper http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=10477&filter=grr%20ripper

This thing is very versatile and handy, and does a nice job keeping your digits away from the monster's teeth.

3. Board buddies http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=11262&filter=board%20buddies

Similar to feather boards. I don't own them, but I ogle them.

I tend to use a couple rules of (keeping my) thumb when using my table saw:

A. Have an exit plan. Once the wood's through the blade, if you can't hold on to it there will be trouble.

B. If you think it might kickback, it will. Just duck.

C. Build a better power switch. The switch on my delta is not terribly convenient or easy to find in a panic. Wire in a new switch with a rocker you can hit with your foot or knee.

D. Perhaps far most importantly...If you're thinking of ripping a 4x8 sheet of plywood, yourself, on a table saw, don't. That's what circular saws are for.

[mikem]

In my opinion, one of the most important aspects of using any tool safely is being comfortable while having a respect for the tool. There are many aspects of the table saw that could be causing the issues you are experiencing. Without know the specific model of the saw you have, my guess is that something on the saw is out of alignment. I recently bought a used table saw from craigslist. Before using the saw again, I would recommend you go through the same steps before I agreed to purchase the saw. First get yourself a couple of good squares, including a combination square. First, check to make sure the blade is absolutely parallel to the miter slot. I recommend measuring off the same blade tooth with it at the front and at the rear of the saw. Next make sure the balde is at a true 90degrees to the table. Do not trust the scale on the saw, as it may need adjusting. Instead use your combination square. Next look at your splitter. Make sure it is in perfect alignment with your blade. Also keep in mind a lot of the splitters are designed for 1/8" kerf blade. If you are using a thin kerf blade, this could cause your work piece to bind. Next look at your fence. Lock it down, and as you did with the blade, make sure it is parallel to the miter slot. Another part very easily overlooked in the adjustment is the insert plate. Make sure this is absolutely flush with table surface. If the insert plate isn't flush, it will cause your work piece to bind. I just put a zero clearance insert in my saw, and spent about 30 minutes working on the alignment alone even before I cut the slot in it. Finally put a coat of wax on the table itself.

If you find anything out of alignment, consult the owners manual on how to adjust it. Give this a try, and see if this helps at all. I know this sounds basic, but make sure you are using the right technique for the cut you are doing. Use the rip fence for rips (with the grain) and miter gauge for cross cuts across the grain. Never use both together.

[Beechwood Chip]

I now am finding I need to make thinner and thinner cuts and this scares me.

What in your opinion can I do to make cutting on this monster easier? Keep in mind it is all stock.....Standard table, standard blade, no frills.

If you're finding that the performance is getting worse, then I sense a cheap blade that got dull real fast. How many feet have you run through it, what species, how thick? You may need to get two blades, and when the first gets dull you use the second while the first one is out getting sharpened.

The blade that came with your saw is crap - replace it with a better blade. Lots of discussion here about table saw blades. I have heard rumors that there are saws that come from the manufacturer with decent blades, but I'm not sure I believe them, and besides, Craftsman definitely wasn't one of them.

Find Marc's saw set-up and tune-up video and do all the steps. It's probably more important for a less expensive saw. Wax the table and the miter slots, even if they are aluminum.

If you are still having trouble after all that, then there's something wrong with the saw. Even a $100 "job-site" portable saw should be able to cut flooring.

[tenonman]

Try these

best thing since sliced bread IMHO

My link

[knotscott]

All table saws aren't created equal. Brand names aside, the type of saw you have makes a big difference in the end performance and user comfort level. Craftsman happens to sell a range of saws from cheap $100 lightweight consumer grade junk to some full size cast iron $2000 cabinet saws that are pretty decent. A cheap 60 pound saw with poor alignment mechanisms, a sloppy fence, and crumby blade would make me pretty uncomfortable too...a 300# saw that's quiet, smooth, well adjusted, has a good fence, a slick waxed table, and a good blade is much nicer to use.

At the very least, grab a $30 Freud Diablo thin kerf blade that's appropriate for the task....likely a 24T, 40T, or 50T. If your saw isn't at least a full size contractor saw with a decent fence and a splitter that works well, you might consider an upgrade.

[Derekkest]

Thank you for all the replies. The one I have is basicly the first posted picture ( The little black one). It does in fact have the original blade that came with it, and the splitter always seems to move no matter how much I tighten it.

I think after reading all the above posts, a better saw is in order if I want to keep myself all attached and make better cuts. I am off to the woodworker store tomorrow so I will start pricing some new ones.

[Jim Rimmer]

In my opinion, one of the most important aspects of using any tool safely is being comfortable while having a respect for the tool. There are many aspects of the table saw that could be causing the issues you are experiencing. Without know the specific model of the saw you have, my guess is that something on the saw is out of alignment. I recently bought a used table saw from craigslist. Before using the saw again, I would recommend you go through the same steps before I agreed to purchase the saw. First get yourself a couple of good squares, including a combination square. First, check to make sure the blade is absolutely parallel to the miter slot. I recommend measuring off the same blade tooth with it at the front and at the rear of the saw. Next make sure the balde is at a true 90degrees to the table. Do not trust the scale on the saw, as it may need adjusting. Instead use your combination square. Next look at your splitter. Make sure it is in perfect alignment with your blade. Also keep in mind a lot of the splitters are designed for 1/8" kerf blade. If you are using a thin kerf blade, this could cause your work piece to bind. Next look at your fence. Lock it down, and as you did with the blade, make sure it is parallel to the miter slot. Another part very easily overlooked in the adjustment is the insert plate. Make sure this is absolutely flush with table surface. If the insert plate isn't flush, it will cause your work piece to bind. I just put a zero clearance insert in my saw, and spent about 30 minutes working on the alignment alone even before I cut the slot in it. Finally put a coat of wax on the table itself.

If you find anything out of alignment, consult the owners manual on how to adjust it. Give this a try, and see if this helps at all. I know this sounds basic, but make sure you are using the right technique for the cut you are doing. Use the rip fence for rips (with the grain) and miter gauge for cross cuts across the grain. Never use both together.

Some great advice here from Mike. You can make your saw a good saw; maybe not equivalent to a higher priced, higher quality but it can work. Follow the set up procedures described and then buy a good quality blade. Even the high priced saws come with crappy blades. If you want to cut narrow pieces I would recommend the Rockerl jig http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=18056&filter=narrow%20strip%20jigs. I've got one and they work great and they're priced low enough that making one is not worth it.

Once the saw is set up properly, look at the safety issues:

1. Always use the splitter/riving knife and blade guard

2. Get some good feather blocks

3. Get or make push blocks

4. NEVER do a cross cut using the fence as a stop block; the offcut will bind and kickback

5. Stand slightly to the left of the blade so if there is kickback you've got a good chance of being out of the way (not guaranteed but a chance)

6. Think through the cut. What can go wrong and what will I do? Where are my hands?

7. Lose most of the gear you are wearing, it could cause more trouble than it will prevent (use the safety glasses and ear protection but lose the rest)

8. Do some practice cuts with soft wood like pine until you are comfortable with the saw and the process

9. Don't be afraid of the saw. Respect it, but don't be afraid; it will make you tentative and may contribute to an accident

10.DON'T EVER freehand a cut on the tablesaw

11.Set the blade height so that the top of the board is about even with the bottom of the gullet. There are varying opinions on this but the idea is to have as little of the blade protruding as possible while still getting a good cut and allowing the gullets to do their job removing sawdust and chips

[mikem]

Derrek, take care in setting that saw up. Especially when it comes to the splitter. An out of alignment or loose splitter can cause kickback. It sounds like even after tightening it is still loose. I would call Sears on this as it sounds like you may have a defective splitter.

[Ben H]

I'll be honest, I didn't read every post above. So if my point has already been said, I apologize.

When you are setting your fence on your saw, double check the front and the back of the fence against the front and back of the blade. When I've used cheaper saws in the past, the fence NEVER locks square to the blade, creating a wedge between the blade and fence. Now if it's "toed out", you'll get slop in the cut, if it's "toed in" you'll likely get a bad kickback.

You can make clean, safe cuts on cheaper saws. It simply takes a tat bit of tuning, and re-tuning as you work. Pick up a decent blade, you'll be amazed of the difference.

Remember, if you have to "force" a cut, something is wrong. Dull bit/blades cut more people than sharp ones.

[Guest Trace]

Knotscott posted two pictures of Craftsman table saws. I have the one shown at the right. It is more than acurate enough for the work I do. However I did tweak the alignment so that everything is paralell. I think the most important thing is keeping a sharp blade on the machine. Also, an air hose to help keep the table clean of debris. Good jigs help, but YOU are the best saftey device in your shop. I NEVER get in a hurry, constantly watch where my hands are, and keep the floor clear of cutoffs. I respect the saw because I want to keep my fingers and other parts of my anatomy. I would suggest asking for help from someone who knows how to set up a saw properly. It really is not too difficult and once done is fairly easy to keep aligned.

[ronnie]

I don't no if I would wear all that equipment. That sounds a little dangerous in it self. I mean I am all out for safety but what if your equipment gets snagged or hung on something. That sounds scary to me. To be honest with you, the very first table saw that I had was a craftsman, and I was pretty scared to use it. Matter of fact every time I used it I was a bunch of nerves afterwards. So needless to say I didn't cut on it very often at first. For a while I just used it as a work bench. I am not a pro at any of this because I am still learning my self. But what would probably help you is if you just got some old scrap lumber like some 4x4s and just ripped them, just to get the feel of the saw if you now what I mean. Its good that you have safety on the brain. A table saw is nothing to play with. I hope that I never get to comfortable with my table saw. That is the last thing we should ever do. And I know sometimes you may not have much of a choice, but I would try to avoid cutting real thin pieces as much as possible. So don't think your alone when it comes to dealing with your table saw. Even now since I have been using a table saw I still get scared of it from time to time. So really if you think about it : to be a little scared of your table saw is a good thing. It helps you to be cautious and safe. What I would do is go around like after a storm or something and pick up some small logs like oak,cedar or pine me mainly cedar and cut the ends and tack a thin piece of plywood to the bottom of it and raise my saw to go as high as it would go and run the log against my fence juts to cut one side flat and smooth. A lot of times the saw wont cut all the way through so I would have to turn it upside down and do the same thing on the other side to get a flat surface on your log. once you have one side done then put your log flat on the table and tack your plywood to the right side of your log and run it smoothly against your fence turn it over without removing the plywood and run it through again. once you've done that you now have a small log that you have squared on one side and you can now cut small boards off that log. And when you are done let them dry for a period of time unless it is oak and it may take up to a year for it to totaly dry. But when you are done you have some lumber that you can be proud of. And that you can say that you have made. And on top of all that you have got some experiance with working with your table saw. Believe me it is so fun.

Well c-ya. Woodwhiperer member Ronnie E

[ronnie]

I'll be honest, I didn't read every post above. So if my point has already been said, I apologize.

When you are setting your fence on your saw, double check the front and the back of the fence against the front and back of the blade. When I've used cheaper saws in the past, the fence NEVER locks square to the blade, creating a wedge between the blade and fence. Now if it's "toed out", you'll get slop in the cut, if it's "toed in" you'll likely get a bad kickback.

You can make clean, safe cuts on cheaper saws. It simply takes a tat bit of tuning, and re-tuning as you work. Pick up a decent blade, you'll be amazed of the difference.

Remember, if you have to "force" a cut, something is wrong. Dull bit/blades cut more people than sharp ones.

[/quote

Thats a very good point. What I normally do is take a measuring tape and measure from the outside of the fence to the end of the table on the front and the end of the fence. This I have learned to keep in practice.

Good point there.........................

[ronnie]

All table saws aren't created equal. Brand names aside, the type of saw you have makes a big difference in the end performance and user comfort level. Craftsman happens to sell a range of saws from cheap $100 lightweight consumer grade junk to some full size cast iron $2000 cabinet saws that are pretty decent. A cheap 60 pound saw with poor alignment mechanisms, a sloppy fence, and crumby blade would make me pretty uncomfortable too...a 300# saw that's quiet, smooth, well adjusted, has a good fence, a slick waxed table, and a good blade is much nicer to use.

At the very least, grab a $30 Freud Diablo thin kerf blade that's appropriate for the task....likely a 24T, 40T, or 50T. If your saw isn't at least a full size contractor saw with a decent fence and a splitter that works well, you might consider an upgrade.

T be honest with you if I spend $2000.00 on a table saw I am gonna spend it on a SAWSTOP...................

[Bombarde16]

Ok, so the wife wanted flooring. I said I needed a tablesaw to do that and it wouldnt be worth it

...

I now am finding I need to make thinner and thinner cuts and this scares me.

By "thinner and thinner" when discussing flooring, I hope you're not talking about trying to scribe floor boards up to a wall. This is precisely what this bonehead was doing when his fingers went into the blade.

Assuming that this isn't the case, though, I've cut inlays down to 1/8" and thinner on the in-side of the blade. Two big things:

- Make a zero clearance insert. Make several and fit one for each blade you use.

- Use a sharp (i.e. new) coarse (i.e. fewer teeth) blade. I've had excellent results using a tiny little 7 1/4" framing blade. (Bonus: These also come in ridiculously thin kerfs.)

- Use a big sacrificial push block, not a skinny little push stick. (I posted pictures of this back in the old forum. Anyone know how to find these?) I batch mine out ten at a time and keep a pile near the saw.

What are you making these for? Perhaps there's a better and/or less scary way to accomplish what you need.