HF Dust Collection

[Coop]

After some research on the net., I ask for and received a HF dust collector for fathers day. Due to other more important things, I've kept it in the box unassembled until last night when I decided to get this baby out and put it together. I won't go into the crappy install instructions as that isn't the issue here. After a couple of hours I finally got this 2 h.p. monster together. In case it's relevant, it has a 4" inlet that has a removable 4" x 2.5" x 2.5" reducing wye. The discharge is a short 5' hose. I currently use a small Craftsman shop vac with a Dust Deputy cyclone. Even though by now it was 11:30 and family and neighbors were asleep, I had to plug it in and try it. I used the wye w/ a cap on one side and attached the 2.5" hose from my shop existing vac and turned it on. I was surprised that this roaring sucker had considerably less suction then my current vac.. I got mad, grabbed a beer and called it a night.

Am I missing something here? Why would this huge thing that takes up 1/4 of my shop and sounds like a jet taking off, suck less than a small shop vac. Hopefully the answer is not that it came from HF

[..Kev]

You will get considerably less when you reduce to the 2.5".  Try running the 4" to your TS and see how it works.

 

I've never used the HF dust collection but, it's one of the few of their items I've heard good things about. 

[Beechwood Chip]

Vacuum cleaners (dust extractors if you want to pay more) have higher static pressure but lower CFM.  They are good for small things like sanders and routers.

 

Dust collectors have higher CFM and lower static pressure.  They are good for things that make a huge amount of dust, chips, and shavings, like table saws, planers, and jointers.

 

Static pressure is like trying to pick up a tennis ball or a bowling ball with your shop vac.  The more static pressure, the heavier thing you can pick up.  But no air is actually moving.

 

CFM is cubic feet per minute, and measures air that is actually moving.  If you block the hose with a tennis ball, or partially block it by reducing it to 4" (or 2.5"), then you won't get good CFM.

[Coop]

I also heard good things, thus the reason for buying it. I did buy a good 4" hose from Rockler that I did not try since it was so late so I will give it a try tonite. In my mind I was thinking that if you restrict the incoming air flow for both the new and existing vacs to 2.5", that the new, larger unit should have more suction. Kind of like when you restrict the discharge of a water hose w/ a nozzle and you get more velocity? I was planning on adding a Thein baffle and a Wynn filter but if this is all the suction I'm going to get, I will just put it out by the street and mark it up as experience.

[Coop]

Sorry BC, I didn't see your reply before I posted again. So, according to both of you guys, try the 4" hose before I moan and cry too much more   

[Firehawk]

Mine works great, maybe you should take it back and exchange it! My motor died about 6 month in and that was all I returned so I would not have to reassemble it.  One thing to point out is that buying the extended warranty is a must for any HF item with a motor!

[knotscott]

Think in terms of moving large volumes of saw dust (such as from a planer) at a lower velocity vs small quantities of dust (sander) at higher velocity.  A shop vac would quickly be overwhelmed from the output of a planer.  My garden hose has a much higher water velocity than a river, but doesn't move anywhere near as much water!

 

If the impeller is spinning freely, and the motor is working properly, the odds are good that your DC is functioning as it should.  4" or 5" tubing can help with overall airflow, as can more breathable filters such as a cannister upgrade for the bags.  

[Coop]

Yeah Mark, and I knew that but didn't. I think they give you 90 days to buy it so I will this weekend. I purchased a drill press from them a couple of years ago and did buy the warranty. 13 months, almost to the day, the cast collar that holds the table to the upright post cracked and I took it back for a new one. Believe it not, they didn't want to warrant it and the nice lady taking care of me, stood up for me and they ended up giving me a new one.

[Coop]

Think in terms of moving large volumes of saw dust (such as from a planer) at a lower velocity vs small quantities of dust (sander) at higher velocity.  A shop vac would quickly be overwhelmed from the output of a planer.  

As I will still be moving the dc hose from one machine to another as needed, vs having the dc piped to all machines w/ blast gates, I will still get better results w/ the bigger unit?

[mikem]

Just for clarification, the 2HP HF dust collector has a 5"inlet with a 4"x4" wye 

[Beechwood Chip]

You'll be getting better CFM, which is better in some cases.  The shop vac will give you better static pressure, which is better in other cases.  The 2 HP dust collector is not a "more powerful shop vac".

 

Using a portable dust collector with a short flexible hose works well.  The longer the flex hose, the less CFM you'll get.  Also, the straighter the flex hose, the better.

 

The dust collector will never pick up heavy stuff like a shop vac will.

[Coop]

You'll be getting better CFM, which is better in some cases.  The shop vac will give you better static pressure, which is better in other cases.  The 2 HP dust collector is not a "more powerful shop vac".

 

Using a portable dust collector with a short flexible hose works well.  The longer the flex hose, the less CFM you'll get.  Also, the straighter the flex hose, the better.

 

The dust collector will never pick up heavy stuff like a shop vac will.

OK, I'm understanding better. That's probably the reason the impeller is inline with the inlet/otlet as it wasn't meant to pick up the big stuff. On my "practice run" last night, I did try to pick up wood pieces and it made a helluva noise hitting the blades.

And MikeM, this one does have the 4" inlet w/ 2.5x2.5 wye cause I used my existing 2.5" hose and connected to the new one.

http://www.harborfreight.com/2-hp-industrial-5-micron-dust-collector-97869.html

[mikem]

I have the same DC, the include wye is definitely 4".

[Coop]

I may be mistaken Mike. It was 11:30 last night and there's no telling what I thought I saw

[mikem]

Understand.    To add, I have been running this DC for a year now, and have been gradually adding machines on to it.  I have 3 machines permanently attached to it (Table Saw, Jointer, Router Table) with 4" hookups, and 1 machine (the OSS) with a 2.5" hookup.  The 2.5" hook up is also conveniently placed that I put a shopvac hose on it for surface cleanup.  As others have stated, and as you have observed, the suction is not comparable to a shopvac, as they work on different principles.  In my opinion a wood shop really needs both.

 

To get a broader view of my DC setup, I also have a small 1hp Rikon DC that handles my planer and band saw. 

 

I have found that for the most part the setup has been effective, especially at the router table.  I would say the least effective machine in my setup is the table saw, but I believe that has to with the saw more than the DC.  The small DC works well for the single machine hookups I use it for, but for better work flow, especially during the milling process, I want to get those two machines hooked up to the larger DC.

 

I have also found that the filter bag on the HF DC is horrible.  It is a 5 micron(at least advertised), but I have noticed patches of sawdust forming on the outside of the bag.  I have found some 1 micron bags that aren't too expensive, but I am really thinking about going to the next level and getting a Wynn filter for it.  They are advertised at .5 micron and the pleated design allows the air to flow through the filter more efficiently.  

[STL Woodguy]

On top of what was already discussed, also keep in mind that the HF dust collector is very moddable. Not that you couldn't mod a more expensive dust collector, but I wouldn't want to risk the investment. I've added a Wynn filter and a separator (making it a two stage collector) to mine and still have it blastgated to five machines in a small area. There are tradeoffs and airflow is affected, sure (and I still need to make improvements), but I've been satisfied with the results.

[Coop]

Just when I was about to put it out by the street w/ a "free" sign on it, you guys changed my mind. It has the footprint of an elephant and looks like the empire state bldg. but as long as it sucks, I'm happy

[jHop]

as long as it sucks, I'm happy

 

 

Great choice of phrasing!

 

(And I'm glad you posted this, as this is the route I'm considering doing for my shop.  Although I don't have a real shop vac attached to the Deputy... (cannibalized a broken house vac... not a great idea if you were wondering.)

[Coop]

The shop vac w/ the Dust Deputy is /was great. It seams like the DD collected more of the fine dust when I first started using it than it does now.  It definitely collects more dust into the DD if there is less dust collected at a time rather than say, you clean out the cabinet in the ts all at once. And, if there are larger shaving size pieces sucked up w/ the dust, less seems to make it to the vac

[RichardA]

I just sold the miter saw stand that held my [obvious] miter saw. Put feet on it so I could clamp it on a bench or saw table!  With the idea of making room for the HF  DC.  I'm heading to HF early next week, with a tape measure.  I hope it'll fit!   If not, I'll be looking for a lung transplant in the near future!

[ResidentEvil]

I've been running the HF dust collector for about a year.  My personal experience is that it has worked well for me when I use it on the big machines, not as well on the smaller sander type machines.

 

I agree about the huge footprint.  What I did was junk everything but the motor.  I mounted the motor on the wall in the corner of my shop (garage) with the inlet pointed towards the ground.  I built a Thein baffle on the top of a metal garbage can that sits directly below it, then I piped the outlet out the side of my garage into the space between my house and my neighbors.  I have one 4" Rockler flex hose that I move between the four machines I use it for (TS, Jointer, CMS, Planar), with Rocklers dust right fittings on all of them.

 

The setup above doesn't take much space, maybe a 2x2' corner of the shop.  The rolling base, and filter bags are the space hog for that system.

 

It works great for the planar and jointer, and a little less effectively for the TS and CMS.  Partly because the design of the tools, but also partly because of the size of the chips/dust that each machine creates.  The Thein baffle is amazing at capturing the chips and dust, as long as I empty it regularly.  It actually vents out directly above my AC units on the side of my house.  I regularly go out and check to make sure I'm not clogging them up with dust, and never find any signs of wood dust on our around the units.

 

Only problem I've had is that the on/off switch burnt out.  I just took the switch out and hardwired it, then plugged it into a remote control on/off switch.

[TerryMcK]

Here's my two cents worth.

I don't have the HF unit but do have a 6" chip extractor. I choose mine as the specification for the jointer/planer I have stated a particular CFM requirement. I chose the 6" unit as it had almost twice the capacity as required. This is designed to be connected to a 6" mainline or reduced to 4" using a metal tapered reducer. In use it works supremely well on the jointer/planer. However when reduced down to 2.1/2" or lower as used on the drill press/OSS/small bandsaw it still works but not as well.

Lots of factors come into play here causing resistance to the movement of air/dust through the system creating a lowering of static pressure. I know at the moment you will be just using hoses so some of the points won't be relevant but a few points to observe are here:

• Corrugated or smooth insides to the hoses. Corrugations severely disrupt airflow. Try to get smooth insides to your hoses. It's more expensive but much more efficient.
• Hose reducers. Most plastic hose reducers are abrupt in their transitions. Tapered reducers like this are preferable to the flat reducers like this 
• Narrow hose length. Try to keep narrow hose length after reduction down to a minimum.
• Leaks. Plug any leaks however small with duct tape.
• If you end up kitting the shop out with a full duct system (mainline with drop tubes) make sure you use decent blast gates.
• Rigid curves and bends. Try to keep them to a minimum. 90 degree elbows are not good. Try for the shallower 135 degree ones or 'Y's
• Distances. Try to keep the hose diameter from collector at full diameter as much as you can only reducing in the last foot or so to connect to the cutting machine (connection to the machine and available space permitting).

 

Ken I'm sure the HF unit will more than suffice for your needs (I've read good reports about the HF dust collectors) especially if you keep the hose lengths short - keep your other vacuum devices too as other people have already mentioned. Chip collectors will pickup large quantities of wood chips but not too much fine dust. Shop vacs will pickup small quantities of fine dust very well, such as that from a router,  but will not work with large quantities of chips as produced on a planer for instance.

 

A great book I can really recommend is Woodshop Dust Control by Sandor Nagyszalanczy. A local public lending library may be able to get hold of a copy as it is around $22 from Taunton.

[Coop]

MikeM, You are correct sir. The inlet side is 5", and it makes sense that if the discharge is 5", the inlet should be the same. The wye on mine is

4" x 4". I connected the monster 4" hose to one of the inlets last night w/ the other side capped and there's no comparison to the 2.5" hose. The

4" has 3-4x's the suction. I'm already making plans to make a new base to accommodate the Thein baffle and will order the Wynn filter today. My existing unit is on a ply base w/ some good Rockler casters and I will replace the HF casters w/ the same. Does anyone have plans for the Thein baffle? I've seen them on the net but have yet to find instructions w/ dimensions. Also, for those that have the Wynn filter on their HF, how is it attached?

[STL Woodguy]

Does anyone have plans for the Thein baffle? I've seen them on the net but have yet to find instructions w/ dimensions. Also, for those that have the Wynn filter on their HF, how is it attached?

 

For a baffle on the HF unit itself, there was a good site that had detailed instructions that I used, but I don't have a bookmark or can find it with a quick Google search. Stumpy Nubs did a video on Wynn filter and thein baffle, but the baffle is on the separator itself. 

 

As for the Wynn filter attachment, it comes with several turnbuckle hooks, but they're a pain in the butt as they're near impossible to properly tighten and manage to slip on over the lip of the DC at the same time. A better idea is to go to Harbor Freight and pick up a can of these things: http://www.harborfreight.com/set-of-20-10-inch-mini-stretch-cords-93672.html

 

They're still too long, but you can cut the ends off of four cords or so and reknot them to shorten them enough to hold the Wynn filter tightly in place. Also much simpler to remove the filter for cleaning should you need to.

[jHop]

My computer is cluttered with bookmarks and saved files.  Since it's on it's last legs, I'm taking some time to clean it out.  Among the things I've kept:

 

http://www.zenreich.com/ZenWeb/shop/dustcollector.htm

 

http://www.jpthien.com/

 

A couple of the other links are now broken, and some of the documents I've kept have information already covered in this post.  Hope these help someone in adapting/installing.  Once I get more funding (and possibly space, we'll see), I'll try them myself.  (Got some things to do first.)