rodger. Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 Have picked up a few commissions lately, and stashed enough of it away to upgrade some of my gear. I previously bought a domino, and I love it. I have pretty much decided on getting an ETS sander and CT26 dust extractor. So I am undecided between the ETS 150/3 and 150/5. This will be my primary sander. It looks like the 150/3 will suit my needs as it is considered a "finish" sander. Anyone have advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 I've got every FT and Mirka sander made (electric and pneumatic) and a bunch of Dynadrades plus a couple of PC low-profiles. I can offer some prospective on 'primary' and 'finish' sanders... Maybe we should define/refine the requirements? Are you looking for a 'finish' sander or the primary go-to sander that can perform well at mid-grit primary sanding as well as some level of finish sanding? Here's another thread on a similar subject: I also posted on where drum/wide-belt sanding ends and portable sanding starts… The need for good construction and/or mid-grit sanders is influenced by your stationary kit. If you run everything through a wide-belt, the need for low to mid-grit is reduced… But you can’t abandon the need completely… I run everything through the wide-belt, then hit the component with 150/180/220 prior to assembly… It would be overly time-consuming to go from a drum sander to a finish sander in one swoop… You’ve got to remove the scratch pattern from the stationary kit. If your kit is platen-based, you can usually jump right to a finish sander.... If drum-based, a 5mm sander would be the right tool... To consider the two ERS sanders you mention... The 150/3 is one of the smoothest electric 6" sanders on the market. It's a fine finish sander -- one of the best I've used. But it's not particularly well suited to mid-grit sanding (say 100 - 150) and therefore not considered a 'primary' go-to... It shines from 150 to as high as you want... I regularly use it with #4000 Abralon on piano gloss-lacquer finishes... For raising a semi-gloss or gloss film finish (2000-4000), it's as good as it gets unless you go pneumatic or CEROS 150/2.5mm... So if you don’t rub-out film finishes all that often, the need for a super-fine finish sander may not be a good use of budget… BTW: I've posted on this in the past, traditional rubbing-out used steel wool, pumice and rottenstone – but this workflow has been supplanted by auto finishing techniques… Today, you level with some wet/dry, then go to a product like Abralon: 1000 matte, 2000 satin, 3000 semi-gloss and 4000 for gloss… From there, auto glazing compounds to go as high as you want – I use both 6000 and 8000… You can go higher, but it’s akin to #30,000 waterstones… The 150/5 is a solid performer and good primary sander, but not well suited to finish sanding (say 220-400). It's OK at upper-level construction sanding (60-80), Excellent at mid-sanding (100-150) and so-so at low-end finish sanding (180 - 320)... But it's expensive for what it is... It's clearly a step up from DeWalt, Makita, etc. but there are other sanders that work well in this space for less money... The other drawback is FT's hole pattern (unless you go Abranet)... If you want a single go-to that does mid-grit well and fairly decent finish sanding, you're going to have to go pneumatic or step-up to something like The CEROS or DEROS -- they're more expensive, but the performance difference over the FT/5 is huge. If you can still get one, the PC Low-Profile would be the best performance/$$ available for mid-grit to low-finish-grit sanding... Not really a great finish sander, but it [almost] does what the 150/5 does for $150 less. I think the PC-LPs are out of production, but I still see some for sale -- so maybe existing stock??? If you can find one new or reconditioned, I'd snap it up... At this point, the CEROS 150/5 is my go-to sander... It's twice the cost of the FT 150/5, but it's also twice the sander... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pghmyn Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 I own the 150/5 and I can say I love it. It's a sander, and it does what it says. It sands. It does an excellent job at everything I use it for. But again, it's a sander. Hooked up to dust collection, this thing could sand pure ebony in a room full of wet white paint and not worry about black specs on the walls. What I enjoy the most is the comfort of grip on this sander. It fits right in my hand, and I can even use two hands when doing a large surface. Really nice feature for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 Hey Trip, when you say "finish sander," do you mean 180/220 and higher? What do you use for initial sanding with 80 grit to get out mill marks, etc? Because I feel like my 150/3 takes FOREVER to work out mill marks with 80 grit, and even way too long to work out 120 drum sander lines with 120. Granted I hate sanding more than the average sanding hater and after about 5 minutes I feel like selling my shop...so maybe "forever" is a bit subjective... I guess I always considered 80 grit the beginning of finish sanding...perhaps that is incorrect and I've been using the wrong tool my whole life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 ==>when you say "finish sander," do you mean 180/220 and higher? I loosely define: Construction sanding as anything 60 and below, Mid-sanding as 80-120 and Finish-sanding as anything 150/180 and up. ==>Because I feel like my 150/3 takes FOREVER to work out mill marks with 80 grit, and even way too long to work out 120 drum sander lines with 120. I agree 100%. It makes little sense to use 80g on a 3mm stroke sander. The more I think about it, I agree that you need a 5mm stroke RoS with a drum sander… I was looking at this from the perspective of a platen-based stationary sander (of which I have several). You’re perfectly correct -- my bad. I’ll update the post… ==>I guess I always considered 80 grit the beginning of finish sanding...perhaps that is incorrect and I've been using the wrong tool my whole life. Everyone uses slightly different terminology – which is the source of 99% of the confusion over sanding, sanders, etc. In my lexicon: Construction sanding is all about removing stock & leveling. For example: knocking-down slightly proud pins flush with the carcass, but not dishing the carcass... A very hard pad and sharp/friable abrasive reduces risk to the carcass face… Usually 60g and below – the focus is stock removal… Lowering the high spots… I usually use an oscillating edge sander for smaller stuff, drawers, boxes, etc. For panels, it’s two passes on the wide-belt 60g and 80g. When I need to bring the tool to the work, an 8mm stroke RoS with hard pad and garnet abrasive… Mid-sanding starts when the stock is level and you’re not trying to change the relationship of one component to another. Mostly removing milling marks, joinery marks, little bangs, layout lines, marking gauge/knife lines, crayon, etc. I define mid-sanding to be 80 – 120. If the stock is 16” or longer, I do three passes on the wide belt: 100, 120 and 120 w/ very light platen (I’m just trying to lengthen the scratch pattern a bit). If I need to bring the tool to the stock, I use a 5mm stroke RoS, mid/hard pad and fairly friable abrasive. It’s at this stage I use food dye to expand compressed fibers and monitor progress.. Finish sanding - I break finish sanding into two buckets – one is prepping the stock for finish prior to final assembly and the other is inter-coat sanding/rubbing-out. Prepping for finish is about imparting a uniform scratch pattern. If the stock is 16” or longer, I do three passes on the wide belt: 150 w/ light platen, 180 w/ medium platen and 220 w/ full platen. If I need to bring the tool to the stock, I use a 3mm stroke RoS with a soft pad… Inter-coat/rubbing-out a finish depends on exactly what I’m trying to accomplish. Note: Veneer work is totally different. I don’t use an RoS anywhere near veneer (OS only). However, I sometimes run a veneer panel through the wide-belt -- but only after performing a ritual sacrifice to the Tool Gods. Folks sometimes ask why I have so many sanders... Answer one is I never met a tool I didn't like and the second is I'm lazy -- it's more about pad/stroke combinations. I'm usually too lazy to change pads -- so I've got an 8mm stroke w/ very hard pad, a 5mm stroke w/ a hard pad, a 5mm with a medium pad, a 3mm with a hard pad, a 3mm w/ soft pad, etc. ==>I bought a rotex. I assumed it was all a function of grit. Even on finish mode the rotex is a beast I’m not really a fan of the Rotex 125/150 – but I love my RO90… I should have known better -- drank a little too much Kool-Aid and got both the 120 and 150 sight unseen -- low-risk because of the 30-day return window. They are OK at [almost] everything and master at absolutely nothing. They didn’t even last a month in my shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 I have used my ETS 150/3 for about 7 years now. When I am ROS sanding after drum sanding I start one grit coarser. 150 grit on the drum sander then use 120 grit to take out the straight line grooves. It is slow when trying to flatten and rough sand so I use 50 grit carefully then keep switching to successively finer grits. It's an excellent finish sander and can serve other purposes if you are patient and don't want to buy multiple machines. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 I could almost buy-in to having only the 150/3 --- if you're patient (like Steve) and you get fairly clean stock off the planer/drum (i.e. keep you knives sharp and your belts fresh) -- but i'd still have both a hard and soft pad on the ETS. FT has that single cap screw pad fastner and the key is right in the base of the sander, so it's a quick change... On the other hand, I could also be persuaded for a solo 150/5 option -- if you don't mind hand-sanding the final grit or two for prep and don't do high-gloss film finishes (or rub them by hand)... So if you're doing smaller pieces, using wipe-on oil/resin blend finishes -- yea, I could see the solo 150/5 option... I suppose it comes down to what kit you've already got and the type of projects you intend to execute... If you've got a standard BORG RoS, then slap a hard pad on it and use it for construction and mid-grit sanding --- spend your budget on a 150/3. The 150/3 is so smooth, it almost makes sanding tollerable... almost... What ever you do, don't take the Brown (I mean Green) Acid* and buy-into the FT line on the Rotex sanders... You can't do it all with one sander... The closest single-sander option is pneumatic Mirka/Dynadrade/etc DA or the CEROS 5mm. *Pop Cultural Reference for $100... Anyone... No Google allowed... Hint, "New York Throughway is Closed Man." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 Woodstock? My girlfreind remembers watching the hippies drive past her town in NY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted October 26, 2014 Report Share Posted October 26, 2014 Got it in one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 ETS 125 vs ETS 150/3, I know the 6" is faster due to increased sanding surface, however is there any discernible different between these 2 machines other than the size? Does the ETS125 have variable speed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted November 6, 2014 Report Share Posted November 6, 2014 ==>^^^ yes, they are all variable speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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