Lee Bussy Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Project: 48" round table with 3 x 9" leaves - This equals a glued-up slab of 49+ inches wide, 75+ inches long, grain running the short way. Assuming 1" boards, what sort of guestimation do you guys make when ordering the wood? This works out to 25 BF cut to size ... is there a rule of thumb? Does it matter that I can't use anything under 4'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdabroxx Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Are you ordering online or going into a place? (hoping you're ordering online because I want to see how it works out for you) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 I would probably use 10' boards to account for checking and what not on ends and see where that puts your BF count.. I'm at work and don't have access to my normal stuff that I use.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenskye Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 I would add 10-15% to your estimate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post wdwerker Posted July 27, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 My rule of thumb when dealing with boards that you may need pattern match or cut around flaws is 1.4 to 1.6 times the needed bd ft..it's far better to have enough than to reorder and get darker, lighter or completely different grain patterns. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bussy Posted July 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Are you ordering online or going into a place? (hoping you're ordering online because I want to see how it works out for you) Not sure yet. Need to see if I can find a good supplier for the quartersawn around here. If not then ... yeah maybe getting it online/shipping it. THAT will be a crapshoot. I would probably use 10' boards to account for checking and what not on ends and see where that puts your BF count.. I'm at work and don't have access to my normal stuff that I use.. Well, that puts it at ~63 BF doesn't it? ... sort of a big excess. I would add 10-15% to your estimate. My rule of thumb when dealing with boards that you may need pattern match or cut around flaws is 1.4 to 1.6 times the needed bd ft..it's far better to have enough than to reorder and get darker, lighter or completely different grain patterns. Sounds like I was in the right range. If I get to pick my boards I'll choose > 4" or > 8' and keep an eye on the checking. If not ... well, I'll have a lot of scraps. Thanks all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 10' boards will yield you two sections after cutting off any bad ends. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Wider boards may not be available in quarter-sawn . If they are they may command a steep up charge . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bussy Posted July 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 10' boards will yield you two sections after cutting off any bad ends. . Right ... I guess I read it as "you'll get 4' for sure out of a 10' board." This makes more sense. Wider boards may not be available in quarter-sawn . If they are they may command a steep up charge . Truth ... from what I am seeing. I don't need wider necessarily, just prettier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 Right ... I guess I read it as "you'll get 4' for sure out of a 10' board." This makes more sense. Was my intention, guess I didn't word it very well.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bussy Posted July 27, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 After the day I had, I would not have understood a colored drawing. Sorry about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted July 27, 2015 Report Share Posted July 27, 2015 After the day I had, I would not have understood a colored drawing. Sorry about that. No worries.. Hope your day gets better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcK Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 +1 on 1.4 to 1.6 X as Steve says. I try to estimate at least 40% more - nothing worse that putting a stick in a chest of drawers or a table that's completely different shade or grain structure. Any left over from wastage usually ends up in smaller projects anyway. Especially something like black walnut that could (and will) have light streaks in it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Fortunately, QS grain will generally look decent in a panel made of narrower boards, so width shouldn't be a big problem. +1 on buying at least 40% extra for a project like this. Regarding online purchase, Bell Forest, Hardwoods to Go, and one othet, whose name I can't recall at the moment, have been mentioned here, with high regard. However, I don't recall see much, if any QSWO at any of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 You'll be able to drastically reduce waste if you can go to a lumberyard and pick your boards...and hopefully find boards of exactly the right length. 9 footers would be ideal for you as long as they aren't terribly checked - which wouldn't want anyway - severely checked boards are a sign of internal tension which causes them to move significantly when you cut into them. With 9' boards you can lop 6" off each end and still yield two 4' boards...little waste. Believe it or not, you'll have more trouble locating QS red than QS white...it's not as common. We have a few pieces of 8/4 QS red, but no 4/4. We do have some incredibly wide QSWO 4/4 boards...up to 20"...but you'll pay dearly for those. Expect far more waste if you're forced to order sight-unseen online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bussy Posted July 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 I've been having a conversation with a gent at QuarterSawnOak.com and so far it sounds promising. I know of course that what someone says in email doesn't always translate through in delivery, but I like what I see so far. He's also said without me asking that he would select the lumber, run it through a skip planer and send me a picture before they ship it - which seems like an awfully good deal if I have to go "mail order." I like that they "rescue" old growth that may have fallen or been removed for other reasons. He was up front and said that they do get beetle holes in some of the wood which I rather think is sort of interesting more than off-putting. I dunno, maybe I'm just being gullible? It "feels like" an old-growth tree with some character stands a better chance of being unique/pleasing to the eye in this application than wood from a managed-growth forest. Dreaming? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bussy Posted July 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Do you want it to be 1" thick when finished or 3/4" thick. If you want a 1" thick table, you need to start with 5/4 or 6/4 boards rough boards. If I buy truly rough stock from a mill, I can get 1" out of 5/4. But most retail places skip plane their 5/4 stock to just heavy of one inch, often times after flattening I end up shy of 1". That was a question this person I was speaking to asked as well. I want to finish at least 3/4. I spent some more time staring at the table and I think much thicker than was there originally would wreck the balance of the design as plain as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 I have found oak boards in the pile that had a much higher growth rings per inch than the typical second growth oak that is usually in the pile. This wood with a much higher rings is what I would refer to as old-growth no matter where it was cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bussy Posted July 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 I think that is a crock of BS. All hardwood trees come from forests. It is not like there are plantations of oak trees out there being fed a steady diet of miracle grow. Yes, most stuff is now second growth but I don't think that matters much. "Old Growth" is more applicable to softwoods, where 1st generation stuff was hundreds of years old and new stuff are skinny little 12" wide trees. The term/words are mine - I forget exactly what he said. There are urban sawyers that focus on yard trees and what not, but those are certainly not "old growth" because they were all planted within the last 100 years or so. I buy from a place that does that. I like their lumber and they do a nice, careful job of drying the lumber. But the whole "rescued" thing is really just a way for them to sell ungraded lumber at FAS prices. Beetle holes, knots, buckshot, nail stains, etc all become "character" instead of "defects" That, the urban sawyer source is one of those examples. Please don't judge the guy by how I butcher his words. Any "romance" attributed to what I have described is mine. We've not talked price yet and I know what some places ask so I'm not going in completely "naked", although close. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bussy Posted July 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Here's my thought process. This is a once in a ... maybe not lifetime but a good long while project for me. So quality is important, as is the "character" of the wood - by this I mean the rays/flecks that will make up the tabletop. I've been milling (if you will excuse the pun) around here in town and while there are lumber places that deal in this stuff, they don't have a whole yard to pick from. It's all "very retail" so getting the boards I have in my head for this project would be severely hit and miss. Getting log or tree matched is out of the question. So ... sawmill ... around here there are a few. Some have expressed that I'm too small a deal to mess with. I understand that completely! Some haven't impressed me really. I will readily admit I don't know more than I do know, but I'm pretty sure that lumber piled up out in the open is unlikely to be good, kiln-dried stuff. So, I scratch a few more off the list. I've scratched so many off the list that I am out of local (within 75 miles) choices. I don't mind travelling, but when you do leave the house driving that 150 miles, you are sort of committed. That means I need to be sure they have exactly what I want. So far I don't know any of those around here. Shipping? Well it's expensive but knowing what's in town (not what I need) and putting the cost of shipping up against what it costs me for a tank of gas for my truck ... that's a wash. "Mail order" ... not seen anyone yet here say they have tried it. Apparently everyone has a sawmill in their back yard. I spent the better part of a week now researching places, checking BBB and Internet reviews and some of those are mighty fishy), forums, etc. I found a local forum in NC where there seems to be a sizable population of commercial woodworkers. There was plenty of favorable posts about the guy I am talking to, specifically about his QSRO. I back-checked the people posting and many were way too "real" to be bogus postings. I was able to find more than a couple commercial woodworkers who recommended him and trace them to websites, trace that to reviews of them and so on ... you get the idea. Good idea then? I don't know. I appreciate the caution some of you have encouraged. I'm going to give it a try and hopefully I'm not disappointed. I'd really rather not throw away a few hundred dollars, but so far it's looking like a fair to good gamble. Here's some excepts of what he's told me: You're looking at $4.58 bd ft for 5/4 material in width less than 8", and 8" - 10" is $6.59 bd ft. We recommend starting with 5/4 for boards greater than 6" wide so that you can be sure that they will clean up from end to end and side to side. [...] Bottom line - budgetary wise you're looking at $300 - $400.00 if we ship you rough sawn lumber and have a mix of <8" and 8" - 10" rough boards. He's going to go pick some out, skip plane them, and take a picture for me. He's going to look for some ~>10" "showcase" stuff to use for the main table and then we'll fill in the order for the leaves. We'll go from there. I'll post a pic when he sends it. I'd say "go ahead and be honest with me" but that's not an issue around here it seems. (And I appreciate it!!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Just a thought... I know Eric has some great connections and is in the same state.. I also would feel comfortable letting him pick out lumber for me. Maybe he'll see this post and chime in or you could drop him a note.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bussy Posted July 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Maybe, maybe not. It is common practice to let lumber air dry out in the open before it goes in the kiln. The top of the stack should be lightly covered, but you do want air to circulate. Understood. This was more like "sure go look over there" and point me to the pile sitting in the middle of a mud pit. Overall my advice is to not overthink it. I am unlikely to change at this point - paralysis through analysis is what I do best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 I can speak positively about mail order lumber from HardwoidtoGo.com. Very positive. Other folks have said as much about Bell Forest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 Just a thought... I know Eric has some great connections and is in the same state.. I also would feel comfortable letting him pick out lumber for me. Maybe he'll see this post and chime in or you could drop him a note.. Ordinarily I'd be happy to help him out, but unfortunately we don't have any QS red oak aside from a few 8/4 boards. They're awesome boards (for red oak)...but they're not the right thickness and something like $9/bf. We also have QSWO but only in 8/4 and 4/4, both S3S. But Lee, if any of that interests you, let me know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bussy Posted July 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 Thanks for the offer Eric. I will be sure to remember you are over there on the other side of the state. The wife would love an excuse to stay in StL for the night ... so I could get wood ... see what I did there? I'm going to see what sort of wood this guy comes back with and I'll post it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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