thunder86 Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Got pics on here but I'm building about 4 frames like these for a table with shelves. I used a stop block and miter saw to cut all these pieces exactly the same length and put together with a kreg jig tool. The frames do not sit flat with each other and I'm completely confused as to why they are the exact same perfect length all the way around. Is this an issue with the wood being warped? Before I started I layed all the wood out wider side down and they didn't all meet up together. I just don't know of this is an issue with me or the wood I'm working with. They are laying flat in my garage in the pics. Thank you. Nevermind it won't let me upload the photos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Got pics on here but I'm building about 4 frames like these for a table with shelves. I used a stop block and miter saw to cut all these pieces exactly the same length and put together with a kreg jig tool. The frames do not sit flat with each other and I'm completely confused as to why they are the exact same perfect length all the way around. Is this an issue with the wood being warped? Before I started I layed all the wood out wider side down and they didn't all meet up together. I just don't know of this is an issue with me or the wood I'm working with. They are laying flat in my garage in the pics. Thank you. Nevermind it won't let me upload the photos Are you sure all the frames are perfectly square? Did you check the diagonals? Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunder86 Posted February 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Never thought to measure diagonally. But yes they are off and the biggest gap is 2/16 of inch. As far as measuring across it was all the same though. Guess I'll have to go through and re cut all my pieces and try again. I still don't get it though because all my pieces are cut exactly the same length so how can it be off. Very confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdabroxx Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Is the miter saw out of square? Even a little bit off will add up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 What you have created is a rhombus not a square. It makes perfect sense what you are saying. Dont measure across as that is a useless measurement. Measure corner to corner. Once that is spot on and you are sure all your parts are exactly the same you will have a square. Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Trip Posted February 4, 2016 Popular Post Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 ==>my pieces are cut exactly the same length so how can it be of Stacking tolerances... An insignificant single angle error will become significant when multiplied by all the cuts. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunder86 Posted February 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 This is too much I don't think woodworking is for me. Thank you all for the help though. I'm just going to have to find someone in person to watch do it or find a new hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdabroxx Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 hold a square up to the miter saw blade and fence. I'll bet it is just a little out. So when you add up all the joints they become a little out of square. Don't give up yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 hold a square up to the miter saw blade and fence. I'll bet it is just a little out. So when you add up all the joints they become a little out of square. Don't give up yet. I think he just cut butt joints. Can you confirm this op? Did you cut angles on the end of your pieces or just square cuts. Seriously don't give up this is basic stuff we are happy to help you with. Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byegge Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Would have to be butt joints if op used pocket screws right. I'm confused about the issue here. It seems to me that when stacking the completed frames up that they didn't sit flat. That the frames were twisted after assembly. You can post pics with the tap talk app I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdabroxx Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Kinda depends on which direction the wood was in when he cut it too, if it was upright and the blade is out of square to the saw bed then that would give him a tweaked frame too. I would assume butt joints though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 I think he made slightly beveled cuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdabroxx Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Or the wood is warped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Don't expect perfection for your first project. My very first project looks like total crap. There is a learning curve. I found 10 really bad ways to make chairs before i made some that took a week to eventually break. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunder86 Posted February 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Wright Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 When you are gluing up a square you start by clamping along the sides, then you measure the diagonals. If they are off then you add a diagonal clamp across the diagonal that is "too long". As you tighten the clamp, you will make the diagonal shorter until they match. You are close - you just missed one step in the process If the diagonal measurements don't match then you have a parallelogram instead of a rectangle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunder86 Posted February 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Got the app to send pics this what I got. I want to make 4 frames like these only put an extra board in the center and use plywood top amd plywood dividers for the middle. I was going to practice rabbet joints once I got them together. Those pieces all measure the same but are not coming out the same after its together. Ok Thank you that might just do it I would've never thought of that. Should I be gluing these? I was just using pocket hole screws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted February 4, 2016 Report Share Posted February 4, 2016 Got the app to send pics this what I got. I want to make 4 frames like these only put an extra board in the center and use plywood top amd plywood dividers for the middle. I was going to practice rabbet joints once I got them together. Those pieces all measure the same but are not coming out the same after its together. Ok Thank you that might just do it I would've never thought of that. Should I be gluing these? I was just using pocket hole screws. Yes use glue. Just do a dry fit first ensuring you can get them square. Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunder86 Posted February 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk When they are even are the measuring tape diagonally I get this. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 Is that a picture of all the frames stacked on one another? If so, much better ! Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 3 hours ago, thunder86 said: This is too much I don't think woodworking is for me. Thank you all for the help though. I'm just going to have to find someone in person to watch do it or find a new hobby. I think I feel like that every few days. But I can look and see MASSIVE improvement over the last year that I've been doing it. I didn't even understand why I couldn't drive a 3" screw through a 2x4 with my weak 12v 8 year old dewalt drill when I started. My only other tool was a cordless circular saw. When I get discouraged (like.. a few days ago, I feel like I may have to redo my jewelry box base) I just think about how insanely hard it was for me to build some sawhorses on day 1. It really helps to talk and ask questions, not to mention listen to as many woodworking podcasts as you can, and watch as many videos on youtube as you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk When they are even are the measuring tape diagonally I get this. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk Hard to tell in the photo, is there a tiny gap between pieces, or do you mean that one piece shifts against the other? If the matching sides all measured the same length, the the squareness of cut is ever so slightly off. Don't be discouraged by this. I'd bet most of your exposure to woodworking at this point has been something like construction carpentry. Tolerances in that context are much wider than is required for furniture joinery. I suggest that you visit an office or art supply store, and purchase a drafting triangle. A small one 4" - 6" will do, and they are very precise. Use it to check that your saw blade is perpendicular to the table, and parallel to the fence (if a tablesaw), perpendicular to the fence (if a miter saw). Use your eye to confirm no light shines between the triangle and blade as you measure, and adjust if it does. Another tip for confirming parts are the same length, use your fingertips to feel for differences with the parts stacked side by side. You can feel a ridge or offset edge much easier than see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunder86 Posted February 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 When I measure the piece diagonally and it is equal lengths on both sides it doesn't line up sqaure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byegge Posted February 5, 2016 Report Share Posted February 5, 2016 I often check square on the inside of the joints if I have room. Also if your plan is to cut rabbits and lay in a piece of plywood, try using the plywood to help square it up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunder86 Posted February 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2016 My miter saw is off a bit you can hardly notice but that's why it's off. I'm trying to get it square with using a square but the teeth of the blade are getting in the way. Is there a different way besides using a sqaure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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