Eric. Posted May 5, 2013 Report Share Posted May 5, 2013 I don't know about you guys, but I think the bandsaw designers of the world need to have a meeting with the Festool designers to get some tips on DC engineering. As far as I can tell, they're all basically the same...which is, the first DC port is six or eight or more inches away from where the blade meets the wood. Maybe some are better or worse than others, but mine is complete crap. The bottom DC port evacuates everything that collects in the box below the bottom wheel, but the top port picks up almost nothing that comes off at the table. So I added a third port where the first port should have been in the first place. I bought an 8" jointer hood and carefully hacked it up so it slid nicely around the blade, bearings and tilt mechanism and fit flush against the bottom of the table. Then I attached a 4" flex hose straight to another blast gate. I had to smoosh the hose a wee bit to get the hood all the way under the blade insert, which may inhibit flow just a little, but it helps to firmly hold the hood in place. It's not secured any other way, but it's quite snug. If you have trouble getting it to stay in place, maybe a couple very small holes drilled into the "ribs" of the bottom of the table so you can secure it with screws. Or maybe some heavy-duty magnets. I also added some insulating foam tape around the edges of the hood to further increase performance. What a difference! I went from about 10% collection to maybe 90% collection. Now it actually PULLS dust away from the blade, instead of just picking up whatever falls through the insert. Thought I'd share because I know a lot of you have to be suffering from the same headache. Obviously you have to remove it every time you change a blade, but to me it's well worth the inconvenience. In fact I think I'll go put my good blade back on now...I was cutting some aluminum yesterday. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jab73180 Posted May 5, 2013 Report Share Posted May 5, 2013 Looks great to me....is that a grizzly? -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted May 6, 2013 Report Share Posted May 6, 2013 Magnets sound like the way to go! My favorite magnet source is K & J magnetics. They have every size , shape and strength you could want. They have magnets with a countersunk hole for a screw or bolt. You could put a few of those on your hood after the fit loosens up from taking it on and off. I just got a 3/16 thick by 3/4 dia disc magnet and it fits in a 5 mm Domino hole. A little glue to keep it from rattling around then ( solid wood) over the hole. Now the unseen magnet will hold the door open to a TV cabinet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted May 6, 2013 Report Share Posted May 6, 2013 ==I don't know about you guys, but I think the bandsaw designers of the world need to have a meeting with the Festool designers to get some tips on DC engineering. yea, no sh*t... That's the one piece of machinery that simply has crappy DC -- I've owned 4 bandsaws and all had the same DC approach and all were terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted May 6, 2013 Report Share Posted May 6, 2013 Home dust collectors dont have the required velocity to handle a bandsaw with a 4" port. Fine dust needs 3000 to 4000 fpm. Most saws perform much better when connected to bigger collectors. Secondly blade speed needs to be where it should be to carry the dust down. Most people run their saws to slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted May 6, 2013 Report Share Posted May 6, 2013 ==> Home dust collectors dont have the required velocity to handle a bandsaw with a 4" port. agreed about the typical hobby setup.. But my experience is with a small commercial DC and dual 4" ported bandsaws into into an 8" trunk no more than 20' from the cyclone -- way more CFM/In-H2O then stated in the owner's manual... My SFPM is always over than 3100... Sure, it captures most of the dust... But I though my DeWalt SCMS had good DC -- then I got a kapex and saw what good SCMS DC actually was... Same with routers and the FT2200... FT has decent engineers... Bandsaw DC is not where it should be... I agree with Eric, some decent engineering would help... Someone need to look at this with new eyes -- maybe FT will produce a bandsaw and solve the problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted May 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2013 Looks great to me....is that a grizzly? -Jason Yep, 17". Love the saw, hate the DC. Your avatar...is that a dog? My favorite magnet source is K & J magnetics. Thanks for that source...man do they have some magnets! LOL While I was at Rockler picking up that hood, I was gonna get some magnets because I thought I might use them for this thing...five 3/4" magnets...22 bucks. No thanks! Home dust collectors dont have the required velocity to handle a bandsaw with a 4" port. Not sure I agree with this theory since DC on most drum sanders usually ranges from acceptable to excellent...and that's fine dust if I've ever seen fine dust. I have to think it has more to do with port location...case in point my recent modification...the difference is night and day. I'm curious about bandsaw blade speed, though. My manual states that a lower speed is better for cutting hardwoods, accurate curves and smoother cuts, so I just left it on the lower speed and never thought twice about it. My bandsaw has only two speeds...1700 and 3500. What speed do you use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted May 6, 2013 Report Share Posted May 6, 2013 Not sure I agree with this theory since DC on most drum sanders usually ranges from acceptable to excellent...and that's fine dust if I've ever seen fine dust. I have to think it has more to do with port location...case in point my recent modification...the difference is night and day. I'm curious about bandsaw blade speed, though. My manual states that a lower speed is better for cutting hardwoods, accurate curves and smoother cuts, so I just left it on the lower speed and never thought twice about it. My bandsaw has only two speeds...1700 and 3500. What speed do you use? Drum sanders are shrouded. Home dust collectors even cyclones less than about 10 hp dont have the velocity to handle any bandsaw properly. They need to shroud the saws designed for home use but then they couldnt claim industrial. Velocity not cfm is what counts when we are collecting on bandsaws. Most blades even should be run at above 2500 unless your running ultra cheap spring steel blades. Go to timber wolfs we page there are charts for proper speeds for certain sized saws. I run my saw at 4000. All our local band makers will not even warranty a band used on any saw not running at 3500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted May 6, 2013 Report Share Posted May 6, 2013 ==> Home dust collectors dont have the required velocity to handle a bandsaw with a 4" port. ==> Not sure I agree with this theory since DC on most drum sanders usually ranges from acceptable to excellent... Depends on what one considers a 'typical home' shop DC -- one person's portable Delta unit is another's S-Gorilla... But in general I'm with PB on this. You need CFM and SFPM to improve DC on a bandsaw. But I'm also with Eric -- more engineering would help move it to the next generation... Maybe I'm just getting too picky -- after re-equipping by shop with FT, I've gotten far more picky about dust... I've seen what FT can do... As far as drum sanders, the dust pickup is usually a fraction of an inch from the leading edge of the drum (or a fraction of an inch behind) and then the entire thing is enclosed.... Nowhere for the dust to hide... The bandsaw is open... You should follow the manual for your bandsaw's speed setting, but typically a lower speed recommendation implies an under-powered saw... Saws with decent HP per stated hardwood resawing capability usually run 3000-4000SFPM. Note: regardless of what the manual states, a 1.5HP 14" bandsaw is not capable of smooth hardwood resawing... Note: some blades have minimum / max speeds --- it's a safety issue -- follow the speeds indicated on the package... I've only snapped one blade -- it was exciting... And I'm sure the sudden release of hundreds/thousands? of lbs didn't do the saw's trunnion any favors either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted May 6, 2013 Report Share Posted May 6, 2013 ==> Home dust collectors dont have the required velocity to handle a bandsaw with a 4" port. Depends on what one considers a 'typical home' shop DC -- one person's portable Delta unit is another's S-Gorilla... Either it really doesnt matter it takes 600 cfm at a 4500 fpm transport velocity to properly clear an average small bandsaw 24" or less being hand fed. Its unrealistic to think your going to get anything close to that at a home shop running any collector the average guy uses wether its a 5hp top of the line cyclone or cheap bag set up. I really like the idea of magnets and am really surprised this sort of thing isnt already available to fit most saw. Maybe something somebody should be marketing?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Woodguy Posted May 6, 2013 Report Share Posted May 6, 2013 One of the bigger 'derp derps' is on the Rikon 14" bandsaw, they have a plate completely in front of the port, probably to idiot proof the port to prevent people from reaching into the saw from the outside if the port isn't used. Regardless, the dust collection is a 'little' better than I expected it to be and a difference can certainly be told with the dust collector on and off , but I've been tempted to try and get that plate off anyway. I like the above idea even more, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilburpan Posted May 6, 2013 Report Share Posted May 6, 2013 Not sure I agree with this theory since DC on most drum sanders usually ranges from acceptable to excellent...and that's fine dust if I've ever seen fine dust. I have to think it has more to do with port location...case in point my recent modification...the difference is night and day. Drum sanders are shrouded. Home dust collectors even cyclones less than about 10 hp dont have the velocity to handle any bandsaw properly. They need to shroud the saws designed for home use but then they couldnt claim industrial. Drum sanders are shrouded, but isn't a shroud what Eric essentially built for his bandsaw? I can attest to the effectiveness of putting some sort of shroud around the blade in improving the effectiveness of bandsaw dust collection. Here's my solution for my 1940's Walker-Turner bandsaw that had zero provisions for dust collection: This is hooked up to a standard 1.5 HP single stage dust collector with a short run (less than 10 feet) of 4" flex hose. My dust collection greatly improved with this. Having enough CFM is important, but physically blocking the dust from getting away from the bandsaw goes a long way as well. I should mention that I really like Eric's idea. I may try that just to see if it's a better seal than what I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted May 6, 2013 Report Share Posted May 6, 2013 I like it... The scrap stash is always good for some quick shop fixtures. Congrats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcK Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 Looks good Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krtwood Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 Location really matters. I think we went through a period where the manufacturers said "Okay, people expect a dust collection port. Stick one wherever it involves the least effort on our part and call it a day." We've got to get through another generation of tools where they have realized we expect them to actually work and are willing to pay for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 ==> I think we went through a period where the manufacturers said "Okay, people expect a dust collection port. Stick one wherever it involves the least effort on our part and call it a day." you know, I actually buy this argument. I purchased a bandsaw about 10 years ago just when 'DC' was becoming a marketing spec for 'small/home shop' bandsaws --- the port was absolutely useless and exactly placed in a position that would change the fewest mfg parts from the previous year's model.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChetlovesMer Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 Threads like these are why I love this forum. One thing to remember is that only 10-15 years ago all table saws had was a box below the table with a port in it. Today many of the saws are shrouded. I think Bandsaws will get there. ... I'm just not sure when. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteJr Posted May 18, 2013 Report Share Posted May 18, 2013 Excellent approach to bandsaw dust collection. I'm do the same for my Powermatic 14" and will post an update after it's finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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