Decent starter hand saws


Chuck Melton

Recommended Posts

The season is changing and the environment is actually tolerable in my garage workshop again. This has given me a kick in the but to get back out there, and continue my plunge into woodworking. I am fairly set in terms of powertools, and I've been building my handtool collection but I have neglected to buy decent saws.

 

The price on the Veritas stuff isn't exorbitant, and it's the way I am leaning (a pair of carcass saws and a dovetail saw). While the ~$200 won't break the bank, if there is another brand to consider that would do just as well considering my current lack of skill, I'd love to hear about it. I am also thinking I can probably skip the rip carcass saw as those operations would very likely be done on the table saw.

 

As always, thanks for your advice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Chuck,

 

The new avatar is awesome  :). As far as western saws go I think Sam's advice is very good indeed. I personally think Veritas back saws, plough & skew rabbet plane are very attractive tools although some of the other ones look a bit odd (although no doubt still awesome tools). 

I picked up a couple of "new unused" PAX saws from ebay and although no everyone is a fan I was reasonably pleased with them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If money matters, buy something with a decent handle off ebay  such as:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Keen-Kutter-Back-Saw-/161091166476?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2581c8210c  You can find better and fancier any day on ebay, including great ones with new blades, sharpened ready to go.  Search for "backsaw" and you will find hundreds

 

in the size you want, and get a replacement blade from Wenzloff.  They will cut the teeth you want, and even sharpen it for you, but call for availability.  They're always behind on orders. 

 

Rather than being a purist to the point of wearing Lindsey-Woolsey underwear, I glue the blade in the back with golf club epoxy.  It breaks down easily with heat if you need to remove it, just like removing a golf club head, and helps prevent bends in the blade by not allowing it to slip in the back. 

 

http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/component/virtuemart/saw-kits-and-parts/saw-parts/saw-blade-steel.html

 

I couldn't believe it when I saw new ones for sale for 250 with plastic handles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

The thing about saws is that once you learn how to sharpen saws, a whole range of very affordable alternatives open up. Handsaws and backsaws are quite affordable when not sharp. Most vintage saw plates were made by three or four makers, all good steel, and mostly taper ground, not done so much nowadays. Even no name Warren and Ted Superior saws will cut wood like butter when sharpened properly. Sharpening saws is a skill, like any other, and worth learning.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The thing about saws is that once you learn how to sharpen saws, a whole range of very affordable alternatives open up. Handsaws and backsaws are quite affordable when not sharp. Most vintage saw plates were made by three or four makers, all good steel, and mostly taper ground, not done so much nowadays. Even no name Warren and Ted Superior saws will cut wood like butter when sharpened properly. Sharpening saws is a skill, like any other, and worth learning.

I agree with that entirely.  I think the same thing applies to planes.  I have always expected the reason so many people are willing to pay multiple times the price of an old one is that they don't know how to sharpen one.  Most raving reviews include how the new ones work so well right out of the box.    My backsaw toolbox is full of old backsaws that I doubt I paid over 35 bucks for any of.  My handsaw boxes are full of handsaws that were either purchased new when you could still buy new taper ground ones for 35 bucks, or old ones in good shape other than being dull and thus sold cheap.  I won't even start on molding planes that cost $250+ new, when I can get the same results out of ones I bought off of ebay for 15 bucks.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tom, I resemble that remark - D'oh.  I've actually thought about getting another rip saw from LN because my wonderful D8 rip is getting dull just because I know I can send it back to Maine to get it sharpened.  Fortunately folks have encouraged me and I got the files I need and watched several videos (multiple times) so now I'm going to get it attempt to sharpen it soon.

 

What Tom and Admiral have said is very, very true from my humble and inexperienced point of view because I've optimized what they said. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's true Mel, but speaking for myself as a newish woodworker, I spent a lot of money on new tools (especially saws) because I wanted to delay having to learn to sharpen and being afraid I'd screw it up.  My big concern was that 'rehabing' a vintage saw would be to big and complicated a job - i.e. that the condition would be beyond a beginner sharpener's ability to fix.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not sure that I agree entirely. Even the nice handplanes and saws need to be resharpened.

What! They don't do it them selves, send em back  :). Saw sharpening is not something I have tried but it is on the to do list. On planes anything above a #5 when buying blind on metal planes is a gamble if my limited experience is anything to go by. Flattening a sole of a #4 and tuning it up was OK but I much prefer working the wood.

I think for me that vintage is cool is you can spot that peachy tool that needs maybe an hour or so on it. I love this  but I don't enjoy the process enough to want to spend days on it like that guy did.

Once I had tuned up the #4 a sat back and thought to myself if I had done some overtime instead of refurbing it I could of just bought a WoodRiver US/Quangsheng UK #4 and into the bargain had a nice thick blade, bedrock design, thick cap iron and the ability to return it if it was a duff.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

==>  I've been building my handtool collection but I have neglected to buy decent saws.

 

So you don't end-up with ten saws, what are you intending to saw?

 

You mention a dovetail saw, so I'm assuming dovetails...  The progressive pitch dovetail saw is a nice option... 

 

With a dovetail saw selected, then your next choice should be the your general cross-cut and rip saws...

 

If you're going to hand-cut M&Ts, then the rip tenon would be your next choice (I use the 16").  If your not looking at M&Ts, then the mid-sized rip carcass saws would be a good choice...

 

A small cross-cut carcass saw is very handy... after the dovetail saw, the small cross-cut gets the most use round my shop... While I own a large cross-cut backsaw, it doesn't see much action (larger cross-cuts are done either at the table saw or kapex)....

 

Folks new to hand saws sometimes like tapered backsaws.. They seem to be all the rage at the moment...

 

 

==> I think with all of the used tools I have acquired, it might be nice to get some new stuff

 

As for brand...  All the better saws are great.... I've used Veritas, LN, Bad Axe, Gramercy, etc...  Don't get hung-up on brand... You would be happy with any of them...  You should pick the one that feels the best in your hand...  If you can, get to a woodcraft or show just to see how they 'feel'....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't remember how much I paid for this backsaw.  I'm sure it wasn't over 35 bucks, or someone else would be owning it. 

This one probably went cheap because the handle has some paint spatter on it.  Someday I might refinish the handle.

 

Most of the ones in my Backsaw toolbox, on their rack, were bought off ebay simply because I liked the handles and backs weren't screwed up.  Some I've bought replacement blades for.  This one just needed sharpening.  I've counted the strokes for cutting these 2" long Heart Pine tenons, and they average 14.  It'll follow the line without needing to file or plane a tenon for final width to fit. I just cut them to width while I'm sitting at the bench fitting tenons, rather than make another setup on one of the power tools.  I use a Japanese pull saw to cut it off at the shoulder because I can flex the blade as I'm cutting with both hands and not touch the outer edges of the shoulders.  The pullsaw is a 20 buck Irwin.

 

Maybe one of the 250 dollar ones with the plastic handles would save me some time.

 

http://www.historic-house-restoration.com/images/windows3_003.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

==> Sharpening saws is a skill, like any other, and worth learning. 

 

==> Saw sharpening is not something I have tried but it is on the to do list. 

 

 

 

Yea, I got the vice, the files, a $5 'eBay special' saw to practice on, a six-pack and the best of intentions...

 

I 'sharpened' the 'eBay special' and made a pig's eye of it...  Maybe it was the six-pack...  I suspect after a few more attempts, it'll get better...

 

But until then, I'll be sending them back to LN for their regular 10,000 mile tune-up...  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Everyone will screw up some to start with.  Don't start on something that matters to you, but don't get something that needs major work, like reshaping teeth, either.  It's like things like riding a bike, once you know how it's easy.  It really only takes a few minutes if you don't have to stop and talk about it while doing it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At 63, I still don't need glasses, but these are my secret weapon for sharpening a saw with little teeth.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-5X-Dental-Surgical-Binocular-Loupes-Optical-Glass-Loupe-LED-Head-Light-Lamp-SA-/110994684746?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d7cc7b4a

 

I've never seen anyone, including myself, that didn't take off too much metal to start with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Who's Online   0 Members, 0 Anonymous, 51 Guests (See full list)

    • There are no registered users currently online
  • Forum Statistics

    31.2k
    Total Topics
    421.8k
    Total Posts
  • Member Statistics

    23,758
    Total Members
    3,644
    Most Online
    R Parekh
    Newest Member
    R Parekh
    Joined