AceHoleInOne Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 The jointer preps the edge for the tablesaw unless you use some sort of straight line jig. I did not suggest using a jointer to hog off a 1/4" edge. I suggest lowering the table the amount of the bow. This means you may start cutting at 1/4" and by the time you get to the center of the bow your cut is very shallow and it gets deeper again as you exit. Making 1/32 passes does not remove any material the majority of the pass with a 1/4 bow. Chip out is a non issue with this sort of cut unless it's figured grain related. When you set your table like this the vast majority of the cut is well under 1/4 only the very beginning and ends are at a deep depth. The breath of what your were saying was to take off more at one time than taking smaller lighter passes to achieve the samething. You did suggest to take 1/4" cut and no mention of jointing a board bowed 1/4". Just go back and read what you typed. Sorry but that is the fact. However, thankful you have come back and clarified things for us. There are a lot of new folks to this woodworking game. I understand 1/4" is a very heavy cut and so do may others. But there are some who don't -Ace- Peace Love Out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 "If the edge of the board is 1/4" out..." reads bow to me. It wasn't clear to you so you asked for clarification. You got your clarification. Move on. Edit to clarify: Jointers are not thickness-ers. The only reason to joint an edge is to remove a wave of some kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 The breath of what your were saying was to take off more at one time than taking smaller lighter passes to achieve the samething. You did suggest to take 1/4" cut and no mention of jointing a board bowed 1/4". Just go back and read what you typed. Sorry but that is the fact. However, thankful you have come back and clarified things for us. There are a lot of new folks to this woodworking game. I understand 1/4" is a very heavy cut and so do may others. But there are some who don't -Ace- Peace Love Out! Why do you need to be exact on a jointer. For jointing I set the board on my bench, eyeball how far it needs to be cut, drop the table about that far and just joint it usually hit it in one pass. The only reason to be accurate is tapering or rabbeting and Ive never had an issue with the lever being difficult to set. You should read the conversation rather than picking a single post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 You guys are funny. -Ace- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knotscott Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Dunno if Griz and Jet jointers come from the same factory anymore, but they used to. If you're willing to forego dealer support, Grizzly offers the better bang for the buck, with no significant loss in quality IMO. $995 to your door: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 Dunno if Griz and Jet jointers come from the same factory anymore, but they used to. If you're willing to forego dealer support, Grizzly offers the better bang for the buck, with no significant loss in quality IMO. $995 to your door: Factory has nothing to do with the quality. IMO the targeted buyer has more to do with it than anything else. The small PM jointers have some of the same issues as the grizzly but when you get up to the 8" level the quality is better on the name brands. Get up to the 12" and its a pretty significant difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 The fence on my 6" PM is rock solid (which is a known issue with the griz). I use it for both square and bevel cuts and it holds it settings. Maybe there are some other issues that I don't know about, but the fence is not one of them. It came almost perfectly calibrated. I had it off its crate and up and running in an afternoon (although I don't own any feeler gauges. I just go by cut quality ). it wasn't slathered with grease, the instruction manual was up to date, and I did not need to send any parts back. I am not saying PM is perfect (Marc has been sponsored by PM but has also been honest about issues with his table saw and planer, I believe). Bu there are differences in QC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 The fence on my 6" PM is rock solid (which is a known issue with the griz). I use it for both square and bevel cuts and it holds it settings. Maybe there are some other issues that I don't know about, but the fence is not one of them. It came almost perfectly calibrated. I had it off its crate and up and running in an afternoon (although I don't own any feeler gauges. I just go by cut quality ). it wasn't slathered with grease, the instruction manual was up to date, and I did not need to send any parts back. I am not saying PM is perfect (Marc has been sponsored by PM but has also been honest about issues with his table saw and planer, I believe). Bu there are differences in QC. I'd agree that if the choice is between Grizzly and Powermatic then it's a different animal and Powermatic has much more of an argument in favor of their pricing (though I would still think hard about spending the extra money - would depend on the machine). But honestly I think Grizzly vs. Jet is a no brainer (in Grizzly's favor). Totally agree on the QC point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedfmcm Posted March 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 I guess I'm still seeing what I percieve as a rather large negative (fence issue) for a $1,000 machine were $200 more would get me a good one? I haven't found any real negative reviews of the Jet (and only a small number of positive) so that seems to be the better option? I do intend this to be the 'last jointer I buy' as i usually follow that philosopy for my tools but can always upgrade to a helical head later if I discover the need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 It's not a "large negative" unless you plan to change the angle of the fence all the time. I'd say the vast majority of woodworkers, myself included, use the jointer only to flatten a face then joint an edge. I had trouble with my fence at first until I realized all I had to do was torque the handle down hard and then it stayed put. I never move it because I never need to. Unless you wanna spend twice the money for basically 10% more machine - all in the fit and finish department - and buy the Powermatic instead, the Grizzly is the easy choice. It's your money...by all means, spend it. I've got nothing against PM, in fact I just bought a PM lathe which was certainly more machine than I need at this moment...I intend to grow into it. But for a "two-trick pony," as bgreen put it...it's kind of a waste to spend so much on a machine when there's a perfectly acceptable and worthy alternative for so much less. It's more important to blow the big cash on certain tools over others, and you came into the thread alluding to wanting the best bang for your buck...I think you've found it. The fence issue is insignificant in light of the savings you gain. IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 I guess I'm still seeing what I percieve as a rather large negative (fence issue) for a $1,000 machine were $200 more would get me a good one? I haven't found any real negative reviews of the Jet (and only a small number of positive) so that seems to be the better option? I do intend this to be the 'last jointer I buy' as i usually follow that philosopy for my tools but can always upgrade to a helical head later if I discover the need. But wait, this isn't a fair comparison at all. If the two machines were the same and $200 more gets you a great fence, fine. But they're not the same at all. Put the fence issue aside for the moment. The Jet machine has dovetail ways, straight knives, 2 HP, and a 66" bed. The grizzly machine has parallelogram adjustment, helical head, 3HP, and a 72" bed. If you're just looking at features, this is night and day. It's $200 more for a clearly lesser machine, features wise. The way you say it, it's like you're getting the same exact machine with a better fence for $200. Not so. Now if you want to bring the fence back into it, I overstated when I said the fence was "garbage." It depends what you want to do with it. I want to get straight, square edges. It performs just fine for that. It's dead flat. The adjustment mechanism is garbage so if you want to do frequent bevel cuts then yeah it's a significant shortcoming. I guess it depends on what your priorities are. You're getting an extra horsepower (huge), 6" longer bed (not huge but nice), helical head (huge), and parallelogram adjustment (huge for me because I hate tool setup but others might not care much), but a bad fence adjustment (not a huge deal to me but others like PB obviously disagree). As you said in your initial post, the helical head itself is worth close to $400. So at least make this a fair comparison. I honestly think this is a no brainer. To your last point - either one will be the last jointer you ever buy most likely. I just think you'll be happier with the Grizzly. My two cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted March 4, 2015 Report Share Posted March 4, 2015 I've got nothing against PM, in fact I just bought a PM lathe which was certainly more machine than I need at this moment...I intend to grow into it. What lathe did you end up getting? Or will there be another brag thread coming? I have an old jet lathe that I got used from a neighbor for the express purpose of building Marc's tilt top table. Had no experience turning. I had an absolute blast and have done a few smaller turned projects since. I've been salivating over the PM lathes. Probably still a few years away from that purchase because the jet lathe is ok for what I need now in spite of its shortcomings and there are other higher priorities in my tool budget. But I'd be curious to see what you went with and what you think of it. Sorry for the hijack... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 PM3520. It's a beast. I'll gloat when the time comes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedfmcm Posted March 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 I appreciate the feedback on the grizzly, my only hesitation is it seems like a tool with more features that are all moderately executed, where the jet may have fewer but all well executed....but I don't have either so appreciate the feedback. On a related note, is a parallel table alignment really worth it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 I appreciate the feedback on the grizzly, my only hesitation is it seems like a tool with more features that are all moderately executed, where the jet may have fewer but all well executed....but I don't have either so appreciate the feedback. On a related note, is a parallel table alignment really worth it? Listen I feel like I might have come off too passionate in my last post. As Eric said, I couldn't care less how you spend your money. I've come here and gotten a ton of feedback on my own tool purchases. Some advice I took and some advice I disregarded. Believe me my feelings won't be hurt if you buy the jet But I wouldn't call the Grizzly features moderately executed (again, other than the fence). My tables are dead flat. The helical head is phenomenal. I've had mine for 2 years and I'm a fairly aggressive hobbyist, and I haven't even thought about rotating the cutters. They're still sharp as the day I got them, at least results wise. The power is great (and that's probably the biggest difference you'll notice between the grizzly and jet - 3HP vs 2HP). I feel like everything about the machine is/was well executed other than the fence. And if you use your jointer like I do the fence is really a non issue. On the parallelogram question - it depends. You really should only have to get the tables coplanar once, unless you move the machine or keep banging things into it. So the parallelogram adjustment mechanism really only matters for that initial setup. I absolutely hate tool setup, so anything that makes it easier is worth it to me, and I'd much rather turn a set screw or two than try to cut feeler gauge shims until I get it dead on. There is definitely a huge difference in ease of adjustment, but only you can decide whether that difference matters to you. Again, my I honestly think the Grizzly is the way to go, but I think you're looking at two nice machines and that you'll be happy either way. Make a decision, pull the trigger, and start flattening some stock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedfmcm Posted March 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Ok, that makes sense...I appreciate the guidance, I'm sure no one else waffled on tool purchases If I go grizzly, are there annual sales coming up? I hate to pay for shipping... If I go the 490, how hard is adding a Byrd later? Read a bit about it and are fairly manually inclined but just curious. Thanks again...appreciate the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Ok, that makes sense...I appreciate the guidance, I'm sure no one else waffled on tool purchases No - never! If I go grizzly, are there annual sales coming up? I hate to pay for shipping... Not sure about the sale schedule, but believe me you're paying for shipping from Jet or Powermatic too - they just build it into the price. I agree though, it feels much better when they do it that way. I absolutely hate paying for shipping. Can't say I disagree with you here. If I go the 490, how hard is adding a Byrd later? Read a bit about it and are fairly manually inclined but just curious. Thanks again...appreciate the help. I have the 490X with the Grizzly cutterhead, which I love and have had no problems with. But I know Eric has the 490 and just got the Byrd head (see other thread), so he can probably chime in about how hard it is. Marc also has a video on changing the cutter head on his Powermatic - I can't imagine it's much different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Ok, that makes sense...I appreciate the guidance, I'm sure no one else waffled on tool purchases If I go grizzly, are there annual sales coming up? I hate to pay for shipping... If I go the 490, how hard is adding a Byrd later? Read a bit about it and are fairly manually inclined but just curious. Thanks again...appreciate the help. I don't have experience with the 490. i did swap on my PM 6", it took about 2 hours. A bearing puller will make it easier if you want to use your old bearings. Or you can get new ones and just plop them on. it is pretty easy to do. I'd say i am fairly mechancially inclined, but i really don't enjoy it all (if I did I'd have a muscle car instead of a wood shop). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 I don't have experience with the 490. i did swap on my PM 6", it took about 2 hours. A bearing puller will make it easier if you want to use your old bearings. Or you can get new ones and just plop them on. it is pretty easy to do. I'd say i am fairly mechancially inclined, but i really don't enjoy it all (if I did I'd have a muscle car instead of a wood shop). The grizzly and the PM are quite bit different. The Grizzly uses a bolt on bearing cap the PM uses a recessed bearing block housing that is machined into the bed. The grizzly is much easier than the PM. The grizzly is just a bolt, the PM the bolt comes in through the bottom side into the bearing block. These are some of the differences under the hood that your paying for with powermatic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedfmcm Posted March 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Well, appreciate all the advice, but I ended up going with the Jet straight blades. It's a couple hundred more all in, and it could just be the brand snob in me, but I just felt better about this machine over the grizzly...time will tell. Look forward to getting it set up and milling some boards! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 White paint - The lure of the Siren's song. Never what it appears to be but who among us can resist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyrolan Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 White paint - The lure of the Siren's song. Never what it appears to be but who among us can resist? That's what the Polar Bear versions are for! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedfmcm Posted March 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Haha well said. Any suggestions on a mobile base? I just came across Jet and HTC but not sure the later is strong enough and Jet is not available at the online store i looked at. Based on what i can tell as a piece of metal extending horizontally from the base i would be mounting on some plywood and then a mobile base? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 Haha well said. Any suggestions on a mobile base? I just came across Jet and HTC but not sure the later is strong enough and Jet is not available at the online store i looked at. Based on what i can tell as a piece of metal extending horizontally from the base i would be mounting on some plywood and then a mobile base? Thanks I use the HTC with my bandsaw and I don't like it. Wouldn't recommend it. Doesn't feel very solid and the wheels aren't very high quality. The brakes on them also barely work. Not a fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2015 Report Share Posted March 9, 2015 I have this one on my powermatic jointer. The assembly was kind of a pain. It took me longer to put it together than it did to assemble the jointer. But it works fine. I used hard maple for the stretchers. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001DT32AC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 EDIT: looks like that one is new longer available. but this "delta" model looks the same. http://www.amazon.com/DELTA-50-345-Universal-Mobile-Included/dp/B0000223CL/ref=pd_sim_hi_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=1KCWF6QWWEDYSCXTTJ33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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