gee-dub Posted July 8, 2016 Report Share Posted July 8, 2016 2 hours ago, h3nry said: To put a slight positive spin on this unfortunate situation ... even the warped and cracked butcher block is a big improvement on the hideous pink laminate you replaced. Kudos for finding some light in this dark situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted July 9, 2016 Report Share Posted July 9, 2016 6 hours ago, Andy Wright said: I am of the opinion that you can remove the counter tops and and let them sit in your house with stickers in between the layers and plenty of weight on top so that they can "settle down". Once they have stabilized for a few weeks, they should be done moving and you can flatten the tops with a handplane or a router sled then reinstall them. You will lose 1/8" of thickness, but once everything is done moving it should remain relatively stable. Andy, if warping was the only issue than maybe, maybe he would be able to try some moisture witchcraft and get eventually get the top to a usable plane but no amount of acclimation is going to grow back enough wood to be able to cut those joints right where the hack job tried to hide his inept cuts with wood filler. if there is plenty of overhang on one end, then maybe you can swing it but also look at the cuts around the sink, it looks really uneven. I don't see the big slabs as salvageable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown craftsman Posted July 9, 2016 Report Share Posted July 9, 2016 @akmcclain Somebody mentioned that there's too much short grain on the piece that Bowing/cupping.. What does it mean? If you were to Karate chop that piece sticking up next to the sink it might break along the grain because it's short. Aj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akmcclain Posted July 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2016 On 7/8/2016 at 1:23 PM, TIODS said: Where are you located Andrew? I'm sure somebody here is near you and can suggest a hardwood dealer. I am located in Gainesville, FL. I was having a hard time finding hardwood dealers in the area. Are there any suggestions? On 7/8/2016 at 1:23 PM, Pwk5017 said: Oh boy, you are in John Oliver's F barrel now. If you finish one side and dont finish the other, it will cup!! You need to apply the finish to both sides at the same time. Finish the bottom, flip, finish the top. Remember, balance, young grass hopper. Thanks for this @Pwk5017 I went ahead and sealed the other sides and top promptly after reading this. The two pieces have remained flat.. Hoping they will stay that way. On 7/8/2016 at 1:41 PM, JosephThomas said: That chunk next to the sink is very very wide (spans from the back of the counter to the front) but is only a couple inches long. It has nothing on the sink side to help keep it flat, and the other side is and end grain to end grain connection that failed immediately (glue will never be enough in this situation). The sink side needs to be attached well underneath with fasteners that allow it to expand along the width but still hold it down flat. As for the other joint, you will need to something other than just glue. Dominos have been used before, a few other advanced joinery techniques could be done, or you can use something like this from rockler (below the counter) to hold the 2 slabs together: http://www.rockler.com/tite-joint-fastener When you let something sit to acclimate, you're really just letting the outer parts of the wood acclimate....if there is a lot of moisture inside still (from improper material prep when the slabs were first constructed), there is nothing you can do about that, they will twist and turn like potato chips once you make any cuts and expose new end grain. Very little you can do anyway. You can make the cuts a little long, seal the ends with wax and let it acclimate for a lot longer, then do some work to mill/flatten them again after that. But this probably won't go well if the original wood wasn't milled correctly in the first place. Good luck! So basically, if the slabs sit in the house for ~1 week they shouldn't bow, cup or twist, its only when you start to cut into the wood, exposing new end grain that they will start to bow, cup or twist. So what would happen if I brought the slabs home, while they were still flat, and immediately started sanding and sealing the slab. What would happen? The moisture inside would just be stuck inside and it would wood rot from the inside out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted July 9, 2016 Report Share Posted July 9, 2016 9 minutes ago, akmcclain said: I am located in Gainesville, FL. I was having a hard time finding hardwood dealers in the area. Are there any suggestions? Thanks for this @Pwk5017 I went ahead and sealed the other sides and top promptly after reading this. The two pieces have remained flat.. Hoping they will stay that way. So basically, if the slabs sit in the house for ~1 week they shouldn't bow, cup or twist, its only when you start to cut into the wood, exposing new end grain that they will start to bow, cup or twist. So what would happen if I brought the slabs home, while they were still flat, and immediately started sanding and sealing the slab. What would happen? The moisture inside would just be stuck inside and it would wood rot from the inside out? Raw boards need to acclimate before and during milling. Acclimating after milling means you will have a lot of waste. Flooring guys are the only I have ever seen take this approach with milled stock. With a massive glue up like your counter, the boards should have been allowed to acclimate long before assembly. After the glue up, I would have then sealed the whole thing before cutting. After cutting, all but the glue joints needs to be dressed and sealed. Any wood treated in the wrong way will move. Scratch that....ALL wood moves. Wood treated the right way usually moves predictably. Your counter seemed to either pick up moisture underneath, or more likely dried out on top due to AC? Sealed wood takes on and releases moisture much more slowly. It leads to more manageable results. EDIT to add that moisture content of 13% (which is fairly good for summer in humidity) won't rot wood. All the trim in your house might be this high if you don't air condition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephThomas Posted July 9, 2016 Report Share Posted July 9, 2016 25 minutes ago, akmcclain said: I am located in Gainesville, FL. I was having a hard time finding hardwood dealers in the area. Are there any suggestions? Thanks for this @Pwk5017 I went ahead and sealed the other sides and top promptly after reading this. The two pieces have remained flat.. Hoping they will stay that way. So basically, if the slabs sit in the house for ~1 week they shouldn't bow, cup or twist, its only when you start to cut into the wood, exposing new end grain that they will start to bow, cup or twist. So what would happen if I brought the slabs home, while they were still flat, and immediately started sanding and sealing the slab. What would happen? The moisture inside would just be stuck inside and it would wood rot from the inside out? Moisture always moves in and out of the board, the strategy is to let it do so slowly. If you bring it inside and just let it acclimate it will potentially twist/bow/cup but at a slow rate, depending on how much moisture is still in the boards and what the RH% is inside your home. It has to find a new equilibrium in that new environment. If you let it reach that point slowly you stack the cards in your favor. If you bought something that wasn't prepped properly with kiln dried lumber to below 8%, you'll still have problems, though. Moisture moves in and out of a board at the highest rate through the end-grain, so sealing the ends is a strategy to slow down the process, it won't stop the process. This is why making fresh cuts caused/attributed to your problems, it exposed a lot of end-grain with a very high moisture content. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akmcclain Posted July 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 **Update** Just met with the contractor who did the work. We talked over things and he is willing to make things right. I showed him the joint fasteners I want him to use and explained to him that these cuts have to be straight.. they cannot be free-hand cut. He said he would use a router with a straight edge and make them straight. I agreed. I know everyone has said to start over.. but reality dictates an attempt to salvage what is here. Below is our plan. See the pdf for the legend. Slab "A" - Router the cut edge straight. There is enough overhang on the left to salvage this piece. Yes it is bowed a little from being under the dishwasher, but not enough to render it useless. It is functional. Slab "B" - I'm sure everyone will agree - Trash Slab "C" - will be used as a template to replace slab "B" for the sink. He can use Slab "B" as the template for the sink since the cut is already there. Slab "D" - same as "A", will router edge straight. I am going back to jacksonville tomorrow to pick up a new 8ft slab, which will be used to replace Slab "C". I plan to bring this slab home, pull it out of the box and let it sit in the room adjacent to the kitchen for a week. Assuming the piece hasn't turned into a potato chip by then, the guy will measure and cut the piece to fit. After he cuts it, I will sand and seal before installation. Question- 1- Should I sand and seal Slab "A", "C" and "D" before he cuts them or wait until he is done routing the edges before I sand and seal? He was going to come by tomorrow and pick up "A" and "D" to route the edges at his shop, unless I need to sand and seal them before he takes them. Other 2 pictures are the two slabs by the oven which are on their 2nd coat of sealer, and my 2x4 temporary countertop. labeled 1.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted July 10, 2016 Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 Just remember, your making a plan to fix the crap work, with the person who knowingly tried to pass off that crap work to you and take your money for it. There's about zero chance i'd be talking with that hack. We can most likely walk you through doing it better blindfolded. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew-in-austin Posted July 10, 2016 Report Share Posted July 10, 2016 I would never, ever combine a wood counter top with an undermount or farmhouse sink. You are just asking for trouble. Maybe it can work if you seal it incredibly well. I would seal with epoxy where it's exposed to the sink. Also need to join those prices together with biscuits, dowels, or floating tenons. If you don't they will just break apart again as one wants to curl up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akmcclain Posted July 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 14 hours ago, Brendon_t said: Just remember, your making a plan to fix the crap work, with the person who knowingly tried to pass off that crap work to you and take your money for it. There's about zero chance i'd be talking with that hack. We can most likely walk you through doing it better blindfolded. I know this guy is a decent man at heart (obviously not the greatest wood worker). If he said he will make it right, then I believe he will make it right. Whats the worst that could happen? Everyone here says I have to start over anyway.. if he makes it work, then great!! if he doesn't, then Oh well! Its already a lost cause, but there is a chance that this could work, and at no cost to me, other than what has already been invested. I believe in 2 things- forgiveness and 2nd chances. Both of which I am willing to give this man. I also have faith in humanity.. most people in this world just down right suck, not everyone, but most people. I agree hee is currently in the suck column, but I'm going to forgive him, and give him a second chance to rectify whats been done, and hopefully remove him from the suck column. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephThomas Posted July 11, 2016 Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 19 hours ago, akmcclain said: and explained to him that these cuts have to be straight.. they cannot be free-hand cut. He said he would use a router with a straight edge and make them straight. I agreed. I know everyone has said to start over.. but reality dictates an attempt to salvage what is here. Below is our plan. See the pdf for the legend. Slab "A" - Router the cut edge straight. There is enough overhang on the left to salvage this piece. Yes it is bowed a little from being under the dishwasher, but not enough to render it useless. It is functional. Slab "B" - I'm sure everyone will agree - Trash Slab "C" - will be used as a template to replace slab "B" for the sink. He can use Slab "B" as the template for the sink since the cut is already there. Slab "D" - same as "A", will router edge straight. I am going back to jacksonville tomorrow to pick up a new 8ft slab, which will be used to replace Slab "C". I plan to bring this slab home, pull it out of the box and let it sit in the room adjacent to the kitchen for a week. Assuming the piece hasn't turned into a potato chip by then, the guy will measure and cut the piece to fit. After he cuts it, I will sand and seal before installation. Keep us updated, hoping this works out for you. In regards to finishing ahead of time, you should finish all the sides before installing....this will (hopefully) help the moisture transfer into the wood be as equal as possible from top to bottom. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akmcclain Posted July 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 Got 1 slab from F&D (Don't know where else to get it). Does anyone have any suggestions how to best acclimate the slab? I'm letting this puppy sit for the next week. Should I keep it in the box with 2x4's underneath? open the box? Thanks- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephThomas Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 Google "how to sticker wood" for reference. But basically you'll want to get it out of the box, and use thin strips of wood below it (laying perpendicular to the slab). Lay more of the same stickers on top, then add something else to put weight on top as evenly across the slab as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akmcclain Posted July 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 15 minutes ago, JosephThomas said: Google "how to sticker wood" for reference. But basically you'll want to get it out of the box, and use thin strips of wood below it (laying perpendicular to the slab). Lay more of the same stickers on top, then add something else to put weight on top as evenly across the slab as possible. Awesome- Thanks for the quick reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted July 13, 2016 Report Share Posted July 13, 2016 Under the bed frame is a good place to keep it out of the way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avd Posted August 29, 2017 Report Share Posted August 29, 2017 Did you find a resolution to this? I am having a similar issue from the same shop in Jax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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