Bowing butcher block... help :(

[akmcclain]

Hey all- 

I am a new home owner in Florida, and currently working through replacing the old '80's pink laminate countertop. My wife wanted butcherblock with an undermount farmhouse sink... So thats what she got. I'm a DIY week-end warrior when it comes to wood working.. I love working with wood and doing her pinterest projects, just never had any real education from anyone.. its all just trial and error. That being said, I couldn't bear the thought of cutting $600 worth of maple butcher block, so I hired a contractor to come and make the cuts and install the countertop. I thought this contractor has had experience with butcher block, but the more I'm looking into this issue and reflecting on his work, I'm thinking maybe he doesn't. None of his cuts were used with a straight-edge... they were all free hand cut and hand planed, so there are gaps where the pieces come together, filled in with wood filler (which keeps on cracking by the way). He didn't mention anything about installing a piece of aluminum where the counter-top will be above the dishwasher.. That piece of wood has started to bow (see picture). 

He finished installing last Friday, we were gone for the holiday weekend, and we came home yesterday to a bowed piece of butcher block (see pictures below). I almost cried. I really wanted to put the Waterlox finish/sealer before we left, but there just wasn't enough time. 

Here is the story on the wood- purchased from Floor and Decor store in Jacksonville as 3 unfinished 8ft slabs of maple which sat in the boxes in our garage for about 4-5 days before installation started. My heart wanted to bring the slabs in the house so they could acclimate, but my contractor said it would be fine for them to stay in the garage (temp is probably 80 degrees + in there). Took about 4 days to install. Tomorrow will be 14 days since leaving the store. 

Fervently googling how to amend this problem, I stumbled on this post form woodtalk CLICK . I decided to follow this fellow's approach and use a dehumidifier + plastic. I started this about an hour ago. 

Does anyone have any recommendations? anything else I should try? I do have some general questions regarding butcher block if someone could address-

1) Going from a hot-humid garage to a cool climate controlled kitchen, is the wood actually drying out, causing it to bow? so do I need to humidify the wood? I'm trying to understand the wood-physiology with what has happened.

2) I read in a post that all sides need to be sealed, including the bottom... Since the junctions need to be wood-filled and sanded down, do I need to un-install the countertops, seal the bottom and sides with waterlox, re-install, re-fill the joints, sand down, and then stain/seal the tops??

3) To protect the butcher block above the dishwasher, can I use the cheaper sheet metal at lowes, or does it have to be the aluminum ?

 

Thank you all in advanced.. I hope all is not lost. 

-Andrew

 

 

[Coop]

Holy crap. Assuming the check has already been written? If not, there's your resolve. Sorry you're having to go thru this.

[wdwerker]

So many mistakes made, where do I start ? Pull it all out is a good place to start.  Not sure about metal over dishwasher. Aluminum , stainless or maybe even plastic laminate might work. But I would not use galvanized steel ! Joints should fit tightly and epoxy would be a good idea. Yes, seal all sides bottom, back front and top. Clean cut edges for joints do not get sealed just glue (epoxy).

[Brendon_t]

Unfortunately,  I have no real advice..

But may I say.. damn that thing is screwed up.. the cutout for the sink is all kinds of ragged. It doesn't look like the end grain around the sink was sealed up, those joints do not need wood filler, they needed cut correctly. 

Who made the counter top?  It looks like it's already sagging front to back in the sippy cup picture. 

[Coop]

Unfortunately, Steve is right. There's nothing that's going to suck those joints back together, unless it's a Small Claims Court for restitution.

[wdwerker]

Someone must have been over confidant or really needed any kind of work to make ends meet. Good luck with any sort of legal solution .

[..Kev]

Ouch indeed!

[drzaius]

What wdwerker said.

A completely unskilled person could hardly have done a worse job. There are so many things wrong. It all needs to be torn out & done over. By the time you re-cut the joints, the pieces will be too short, so you'll have to buy some new counter. The longer sections can be salvaged for shorter sections.

Use a good circ saw & straight edge to cut the joints. If the circ saw doesn't leave a good edge, then you can cut a little oversize & use a router & straight edge to clean it up. The joints should be epoxied with biscuits/dowels/Dominos for alignment and strength. To pull the joint tight, you can use counter bolts if you don't have clamps that'll work. 

Above the dishwasher, you just need a piece of laminate the width of the DW & extending back 6" or so from the front of the counter. Just to protect from the steam when it vents.

Seal both top & bottom with whatever finish you use. Where the sink mounts, coat the edges & the underside for a few inches around the opening with epoxy. the sink should not be secured to the counter with epoxy, cause the wood will move seasonally a little. Use clips & screws a flexible caulk.

I recently did a butcher block counter with under mount sink for my daughter & it turned out great.

Good luck & welcome to the forum.

[akmcclain]

Wow.. I knew it was not the best work, but I didn't think it was this bad. The wood filler really threw me for a loop. I've spent weeks reading other DIY butcher block projects, not one person had to use filler (because they used a freaking straight edge to cut a straight line).

Can anyone answer my 1st question regarding wood physiology.. Is dehumidifying the right thing to do? It sounds like its  along shot, but other than starting over, I don't know what to do. 

I'm going to try and follow this DIY.. they used gorilla glue with joint fasteners. Is there a specific epoxy you all like for joints?

 

[Brendon_t]

From humid to air conditioned,  yes, wood will dry out and can move more during that time. 

It looks like one of two things,  wood for the block was full of tension (from being hydraulically clamped with bows in the wood)  so it moved when cut, or and I think we know this is true, it was not properly acclimated to its final environment.   Something like that should sit in the house for at LEAST a few days before installing.  A few weeks would be better. 

[Unknown craftsman]

Forget about the dehumidifier around the sink.Even if you can get it back down it will move back up or down.Theres too much short grain there.

I agree with everyone's else it's bad.And I feel terrible for you.

Maybe some sections can be salvaged for a little island or kitchen cart.At the very least cutting boards for all your friends.

I see new counter tops in your future.

Good luck

Aj

[JohnDi]

Even IF the humidifier did some good, and you were able to join the two pieces mechanically somehow, the wood will still want to move and will probably crack somewhere else.

I'm sure it will be heartbreaking, but it's time to take it out and start over. Chalk it up to a lesson learned about who to hire.

[wtnhighlander]

When you start on the replacement, I suggest a good epoxy, like West Systems or System 3, rather than the Gorrilla brand urathane glue. Epoxy with fill any small gaps solidly, and still be strong. That urathane stuff expands into gaps, but turns foamy and has no strength. Otherwise, it is a good adhesive for expsure to moisture, it just needs a perfectly mated joint.

[jdwykrent]

Answer (or my best attempt at a answer) for #1. 

Wood is made up of cells that are full of water when a tree is living. When A tree is cut for lumber, it is seasoned through a process called kiln drying which brings the moisture down to about 7% moisture content (in Michigan). Once dried, the wood will shrink and swell as the humidity / temp changes. Think of how a dry sponge reacts when it gets wet. 

My thought, if the counter was in the box but not shrink wrapped it took on moisture while in the garage. When it came inside it released the moisture and shrunk. 

Here is a good article:

http://www.thisiscarpentry.com/2010/09/03/moisture-content-wood-movement/

[Pwk5017]

Ditto what everyone else said. Your contractor was a hack. You moved the piece from an area of high humidity(temp doesnt really matter) to one of low humidity. It wasnt allowed to acclimate. Finally, did you really expect awesome results from a surface that is $11 a sqft? We're all on a budget, but you get what you pay for, and those cheap cheap butcher block blanks at Joe Blow Home Decor N'at are a freaking disaster waiting to happen. I constantly read stories about people with the Ikea ones doing all manner of wonky things. They arent constructed with the best practices. They are made of a billion pieces, which makes them a wild card as far as movement is concerned. Lastly, I doubt they are stored properly, which leads to you receiving a gift wrapped hand grenade when you buy one. 

 

I dont think this is salvageable. Coming from someone who makes quite a few counters, that is just F'ed. Sorry. On the next one, I wouldnt buy those bargain tops again. I would let them acclimate INSIDE the house for 72 hours. Florida is somewhat extreme, so i would make it a week to be on the safe side. I would finish all sides equally. I would install them using proper methods using oversized holes with screws and washers. I wouldnt hire that contractor again. Every contractor I have worked with knows jack about wood. Not knocking the profession, but the vast majority work with 80% MC treated pine, ply, mdf, and pvc. Moisture and movement arent in their vocabulary. It helps if you are well-informed and manage the process. There is so much free content out there on installing butcher block counters there is no reason to be ignorant or depend on a contractor who has done this once before. Find the content. Read the content. Educate the contractor with your newfound knowledge. 

 

Good luck getting your money back. Unfortunately, the contractor didnt supply the materials, so this could easily get roped up in a circle jerk of blame. Contractor blames you and the supplier. You blame the supplier and the contractor. Supplier blames you and the contractor. If the contractor supplied the countertops to begin with, then it would be you versus them, which is a much better case. In this instance, you are acting as the GC and subbing out the work. Im no lawyer, but that relationship complicates the matter. Like Steve suggested, I would be pursuing every available option of halted the disbursement of funds. Once they are in that guy's hands, game over. 

[RichardA]

This is a case of you sticking your head between your legs and kissing your countertop goodbye! Get a new one, start over, and do it right! There is a ton of good advise here, use it!  

[h3nry]

To put a slight positive spin on this unfortunate situation ... even the warped and cracked butcher block is a big improvement on the hideous pink laminate you replaced.

[Nestor]

Answer (or my best attempt at a answer) for #1. 

Wood is made up of cells that are full of water when a tree is living. When A tree is cut for lumber, it is seasoned through a process called kiln drying which brings the moisture down to about 7% moisture content (in Michigan). Once dried, the wood will shrink and swell as the humidity / temp changes. Think of how a dry sponge reacts when it gets wet. 

My thought, if the counter was in the box but not shrink wrapped it took on moisture while in the garage. When it came inside it released the moisture and shrunk. 

Here is a good article:

http://www.thisiscarpentry.com/2010/09/03/moisture-content-wood-movement/

I'm curious about the warping. Is this an indication that the wood is still acclimating to the kitchen and would it straighten out eventually? If not, is this something that can only be dealt with during milling and glue-up when the slabs were built?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tpt life]

It cupped up. The top dried and shrank, the bottom trapped moisture and remains wider. Sometimes you can remove some of the cup. Rarely can you ever make it flat again. 

[Pwk5017]

26 minutes ago, Nestor said:

I'm curious about the warping. Is this an indication that the wood is still acclimating to the kitchen and would it straighten out eventually? If not, is this something that can only be dealt with during milling and glue-up when the slabs were built?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Any form of bowing, cupping, or twisting isnt an indication of acclimation; it is an indication of improper drying, construction, or finishing. If a board is dry and you mill it flat, it should stay pretty flat despite changing MC. This is if the board is exposed to a steady balanced change. For example, the OP's counter dried more on top than on the bottom in a rapid imbalanced manner(makes sense, right, because the top is exposed to much more climate controlled air than the bottom), so it cupped in that direction. Opposite can be said if i started dumping buckets of water on the top of his counters and protected the bottom. In his case, he MIGHT be able to get some of the cup out by reversing this imbalance. I have done it before and it works, but it rarely works 100%. It is a dark art. I would wet the surface heavily and run the dehumidifier under the piece. Even better if you can remove it and chuck it out on your lawn with the cup side down in the grass. I did this once with an island that cupped 3/4" over 50". Sat it on my deck for an hour and constantly watched it. The thing flattened like a pancake after an hour in the sun. Awesome, right? Not really, it bounced back to 3/8" cup an hour later. So I soaked the cupped side heavily and took a heat gun to the top. Once again, the piece went flat, but rebounded 12 hours later to 1/4" cup over the length. As stubborn as a mule, I repeated the process once more. It improved by maybe a 1/16th of an inch. Moral of the story is you can diminish the severity of the issue, but without milling it is impossible to get it back to flat. 

[akmcclain]

 Thank you all for your comments! I drank my sorrows away last night,  and will probably need to repeat tonight before I can mentally except the ruin of these countertops. I might actually go find a hole to sit in for the rest of the day, as I reflect on everything that has happened.  I thought I knew enough to know I should let someone "experienced" to do it. But I think I need to take more time and do more researching and learning  before I buck up and do it myself. 

 I haven't told my wife yet… She just got off of the overnight shift at the hospital, I'm not sure I'm ready to tell her yet.. Maybe tonight. 

Thank you for the positive comment about warped countertop being better than pink laminate. I agree, and will have to deal with it for now until we try it again. 

Question about acquiring decent wood- if stores like floor and Decor and lumber liquidators are so bad quality wood,  where my supposed to get decent hardwood? 

I don't have the means to purchase the maple  and build the countertop from scratch, so buying an 8 foot slab was the best option for me. 

 There are two smaller pieces to the left and right of the oven which I am sealing right now to try and salvage what I can. I sanded with 150, 220, then 400, wiped clean with tack cloth, and did 1st coat of Waterlox on bottom.  My wife wants it stained a little darker, so I'm waiting for that before I seal the top 

  The most frustrating part of all this Is I start my surgical residency on Wednesday, and so this will probably not be rectified for the next 3 1/2 years.   I guess that's plenty of time to learn how to do it right? 

Somebody mentioned that there's too much short green on the piece that Bowing/cupping..  What does it mean?   Also, if I let the slabs sit in the house for a week, how do I know that they wouldn't warp or cup just sitting there?  I assume it has something to do with the cut ends? 

Thanks y'all. I'm sorry for the pain I've caused some of you just reading this thread. 

 

-Andrew

 

 

[..Kev]

Where are you located Andrew?  I'm sure somebody here is near you and can suggest a hardwood dealer.

[Pwk5017]

Oh boy, you are in John Oliver's F barrel now. If you finish one side and dont finish the other, it will cup!! You need to apply the finish to both sides at the same time. Finish the bottom, flip, finish the top. Remember, balance, young grass hopper.

[JosephThomas]

24 minutes ago, akmcclain said:

Somebody mentioned that there's too much short green on the piece that Bowing/cupping..  What does it mean?   Also, if I let the slabs sit in the house for a week, how do I know that they wouldn't warp or cup just sitting there?  I assume it has something to do with the cut ends? 

That chunk next to the sink is very very wide (spans from the back of the counter to the front) but is only a couple inches long.  It has nothing on the sink side to help keep it flat, and the other side is and end grain to end grain connection that failed immediately (glue will never be enough in this situation).

The sink side needs to be attached well underneath with fasteners that allow it to expand along the width but still hold it down flat. As for the other joint, you will need to something other than just glue. Dominos have been used before, a few other advanced joinery techniques could be done, or you can use something like this from rockler (below the counter) to hold the 2 slabs together:

http://www.rockler.com/tite-joint-fastener

When you let something sit to acclimate, you're really just letting the outer parts of the wood acclimate....if there is a lot of moisture inside still (from improper material prep when the slabs were first constructed), there is nothing you can do about that, they will twist and turn like potato chips once you make any cuts and expose new end grain.  Very little you can do anyway. You can make the cuts a little long, seal the ends with wax and let it acclimate for a lot longer, then do some work to mill/flatten them again after that. But this probably won't go well if the original wood wasn't milled correctly in the first place.

 

Good luck!

 

[Andy Wright]

36 minutes ago, akmcclain said:

 Thank you all for your comments! I drank my sorrows away last night,  and will probably need to repeat tonight before I can mentally except the ruin of these countertops. I might actually go find a hole to sit in for the rest of the day, as I reflect on everything that has happened.  I thought I knew enough to know I should let someone "experienced" to do it. But I think I need to take more time and do more researching and learning  before I buck up and do it myself. 

 I haven't told my wife yet… She just got off of the overnight shift at the hospital, I'm not sure I'm ready to tell her yet.. Maybe tonight. 

Thank you for the positive comment about warped countertop being better than pink laminate. I agree, and will have to deal with it for now until we try it again. 

Question about acquiring decent wood- if stores like floor and Decor and lumber liquidators are so bad quality wood,  where my supposed to get decent hardwood? 

I don't have the means to purchase the maple  and build the countertop from scratch, so buying an 8 foot slab was the best option for me. 

 There are two smaller pieces to the left and right of the oven which I am sealing right now to try and salvage what I can. I sanded with 150, 220, then 400, wiped clean with tack cloth, and did 1st coat of Waterlox on bottom.  My wife wants it stained a little darker, so I'm waiting for that before I seal the top 

  The most frustrating part of all this Is I start my surgical residency on Wednesday, and so this will probably not be rectified for the next 3 1/2 years.   I guess that's plenty of time to learn how to do it right? 

Somebody mentioned that there's too much short green on the piece that Bowing/cupping..  What does it mean?   Also, if I let the slabs sit in the house for a week, how do I know that they wouldn't warp or cup just sitting there?  I assume it has something to do with the cut ends? 

Thanks y'all. I'm sorry for the pain I've caused some of you just reading this thread. 

 

-Andrew

 

 

looking at your pictures, the worst part of the problem is right by the sink. You should be able to cut along one of the joint lines in the butcher block in that spot and glue in a piece of scrap from the section you took out from the sink.

I am of the opinion that you can remove the counter tops and and let them sit in your house with stickers in between the layers and plenty of weight on top so that they can "settle down". Once they have stabilized for a few weeks, they should be done moving and you can flatten the tops with a handplane or a router sled then reinstall them. You will lose 1/8" of thickness, but once everything is done moving it should remain relatively stable. Remember that the bottom doesn't need to be flat or level, you just need the top to flat and the edges to be uniform. Once they are flat you can reinstall them using the proper glue/fasteners to hold the joints together