Fox's Modern Table

[Eric.]

16 minutes ago, bushwacked said:

needless to say, I didnt have to get her a present that year  

Is that something else you mumbled under your breath from across the room? LOL

[HunterL]

2 minutes ago, Eric. said:

Is that something else you mumbled under your breath from across the room? LOL

Zing!

[bushwacked]

2 minutes ago, Eric. said:

Is that something else you mumbled under your breath from across the room? LOL

damn right I did! You are starting to see how things work around here haha 

 

[legenddc]

Congrats! In 18 months crank out Marc's Kitchen Step Stool for your son, makes life easier!

[wtnhighlander]

... Punctual kid.

 

 

He'll get over that by the time he can drive.

 

[Denette]

Looks what arrived today! This should really help with my layout and when I do the half-blind dovetails on the drawers.

 

It'll be my last luxury tool purchase for a while, but it seems like a good one! The miter square is supposed to be square to 3 thou, which makes it the squarest thing in my shop so far. And it's a good base for striking the miter on the edge. Part of my trouble with the joint has been that I have been forced to just get by with a steel rule held from point to point to strike the 45° line. This should help a lot.

 

Also, I feel like I have arrived at a new stage of woodworking now that I own something with Japanese characters on it.

[Eric.]

Those Shinwa squares are cool.  Not sure why I've never bought one because they don't cost much.  Where'd you get that one?  Can't find it at LV.  I think WC carries them...?

[Denette]

Those Shinwa squares are cool.  Not sure why I've never bought one because they don't cost much.  Where'd you get that one?  Can't find it at LV.  I think WC carries them...?

I got it from Lee Valley.

 

Taadaa:

http://www.leevalley.com/us/Wood/page.aspx?p=56715&cat=1,42936

[Eric.]

18 minutes ago, Denette said:

I got it from Lee Valley.

 

Taadaa:

http://www.leevalley.com/us/Wood/page.aspx?p=56715&cat=1,42936

Thanks for costing me $77.

[Guest]

i have had one of those shinwa combo squares for years.  by far my favorite layout tool. 

 

[Denette]

I'm happy to report that my first post-baby shop hours went well! The biscuit is patched, and is, as far as I'm concerned, invisible to all but woodworkers.

 

Here's a close-up of the patch. It went very well, but when I planed it flush there was a tiny bit of tear out - on the left in the picture. I filled it in with sawdust and glue, and it almost vanished when I rubbed some mineral spirits on it for the finish preview.

 

Up close you can see it:

 

Move away a foot and - what patch?

[HunterL]

Looks great, can't see a thing! 

[Denette]

Thanks!  I'm just fortunate that there was an offcut that had enough usable wood from the original boards to patch it with a near-exact grain match.

 

So this afternoon I've noodled around in SketchUp and I think I've come across a solution for attaching the legs that makes my inner sawdust tingle with anticipation and excitement.  I realized that it was a viable way to attach a base after rewatching the documentary "Building Without Nails" that I recommended in the online woodworker topic I started yesterday.  Check it out.

 

First, I make some dovetail keys.  1" long, ¾" tall, ½" wide.

 

I cut dovetailed sockets into the top rails of the legs, parallel with the long dimension of the table:

 

I glue the dovetail keys into the legs, and trim the half that goes into the leg flush with the leg face:

And then the ⅜" dovetail slots get routed into the underside of the base of the case.  Two inches long; one squarely ½", and the other dovetailed for the keys:

And then the legs just slide into place and get glued there:

With a little glue it should lock in place!  It seems like a good fastener-free way to join the base to the top.  The only drawback I see (beside the difficulty, which is actually attractive to me) is that it will leave a small triangular hole next to each DT key on the underside, but that is nothing that anyone would ever see or care about.

 

Any thoughts on this, and why it would or wouldn't work?  Also, any idea on which orientation the grain should be in for the dovetail keys?  The end grain will either be on the hourglass-shaped sides or on the top & bottom, and as far as structure, one seems as good as the other to my mind.

[Eric.]

I'm not sure it won't work...but it doesn't really allow for movement.  There might be enough flex in the leg assembly to give enough to keep the top from cracking...but it would make me nervous.  There's no shame in using screws to attach a table top.  It'll save you a few hours of agonizing work, too.

[Eric.]

If you look more closely at the Miya Shoji table, you'll see that the DT sockets are cut perpendicular to the grain, so during expansion and contraction the top can move freely.  That's not the case with your design...

 

[Denette]

35 minutes ago, Eric. said:

I'm not sure it won't work...but it doesn't really allow for movement.  There might be enough flex in the leg assembly to give enough to keep the top from cracking...but it would make me nervous.  There's no shame in using screws to attach a table top.  It'll save you a few hours of agonizing work, too.

If you look more closely at the Miya Shoji table, you'll see that the DT sockets are cut perpendicular to the grain, so during expansion and contraction the top can move freely.  That's not the case with your design...

Interesting - I hadn't noticed the grain orientation in the video.  I guess I just assumed that the keys would slide in parallel to the grain, but you're right, it does make more sense for movement to work perpendicular to the grain with that particular joint.

 

There is indeed a little flex in the leg assembly.  I was actually considering foregoing the glue in the intersection where the two leg assemblies meet in order to allow for movement.  That intersection has a little flex, and can scissor like a crisscross maybe a little over 1/4" at the ends if you stress it. The distance between the dovetail keys would only be 7 inches.  I would wager that I'd have to move from Arizona to southern Alabama to have enough of a moisture change to cause so much movement over so short a distance, right?

[Eric.]

Yeah you're probably right.  But technically it's improper construction, and if that's not enough...a lot of extra work for not a great reason.  But you certainly seem to be in the self-challenge mode lately, so if that's what's floatin' yer boat, have at it.

We've had this conversation before, but perhaps it's worth repeating...you might consider putting that extra effort into something that will make an aesthetic difference in the piece.  That's where I try to spend any superfluous time in a build.  What happens under the rug isn't really my priority.  I'm not saying to do sloppy work because something won't be seen...but I try to balance my OCD with common sense.

[Denette]

11 minutes ago, Eric. said:

Yeah you're probably right.  But technically it's improper construction, and if that's not enough...a lot of extra work for not a great reason.  But you certainly seem to be in the self-challenge mode lately, so if that's what's floatin' yer boat, have at it.

We've had this conversation before, but perhaps it's worth repeating...you might consider putting that extra effort into something that will make an aesthetic difference in the piece.  That's where I try to spend any superfluous time in a build.  What happens under the rug isn't really my priority.  I'm not saying to do sloppy work because something won't be seen...but I try to balance my OCD with common sense.

I hear what you're saying!  And if I were working with techniques that I had already mastered, I'd probably do the same.  Lord knows those 14" long miters would be way faster with some biscuits and a strap clamp.  But I'm going with all of these labor-intensive hidden joinery techniques on this project mainly because it allows me to practice in a relatively low-stakes environment.  If I screw up a spot on a concealed bit of joinery, who cares?  I'd rather learn new techniques in a way that allows me to point them out if I choose to, but also makes hiding my mistakes easy.  Since I'm trying a lot of new techniques for the first time here, I'm totally fine with them being hidden.  Honestly it makes things less stressful to practice like this, and that makes me work better.  Once I work the kinks out I'll show them off, but for now, I'm on a hidden joinery kick.

[bushwacked]

On 6/2/2017 at 1:01 PM, Eric. said:

Thanks for costing me $77.

$77? what other shiney things did you get then?

[Eric.]

3 hours ago, bushwacked said:

$77? what other shiney things did you get then?

I don't even remember now LOL.  Oh, I bought an Incra protractor.  And a couple other little things not worth mentioning.  I'll let you know if they're more exciting than I think they are when they arrive.  Gotta love an impulse purchase.

[bushwacked]

2 minutes ago, Eric. said:

I don't even remember now LOL.  Oh, I bought an Incra protractor.  And a couple other little things not worth mentioning.  I'll let you know if they're more exciting than I think they are when they arrive.  Gotta love an impulse purchase.

haha, got to justify that shipping  ... at least that is what I tell myself 

[Eric.]

Just now, bushwacked said:

haha, got to justify that shipping  ... at least that is what I tell myself 

Free shipping right now.  Think it ends tomorrow.  Stock up.

[Janello]

Really interesting way to join a table top. So much better than screws if you happen to run out of them and live in iceland. 

[Denette]

I actually managed to get out into the shop this afternoon and made some reasonable progress.

 

I machined all the tongues and grooves related to the back panel - that is a total of 4 separate grooves and tongues. When refining the tongues for a good fit, I got to learn a little more why everyone loves router planes. The perfect job for that tool!

 

Once I test fit the back panel in place, I took a few pictures. It's starting to actually look like something!

 

I decided to try my hand at making a raised panel with a hand plane. The back panel has raised edges on the three sides that are joined into the carcase. It mostly went well, but one edge is a bit wobbly because the panel was a bit warped. I'll refine that later.

The above picture shows the mitered end as it will attach to the right side. That's the next order of business - here come two 14" long blind mitered dovetails! Whoo boy!

 

The above picture is the center of the front side where the joint with the sliding dovetails comes together. I can't say I'm thrilled with that gap, but I can't do much to refine the joint at this point. I may make a tiny gap-filler wedge and hammer it in place with the grain appropriately oriented, then trim it flush. Time will tell.

 

After all of this progress, I had to get a feel for how the table would look in my son's room! I taped the right side on with some painters tape and lugged it in. I think it's turning out nicely. Far too late to fix it, but if I were to restart completely I'd make the whole thing about 4 inches larger in every dimension. Live and learn! Next time I'm making a cardboard box mockup of the physical space a project will take up.

[Denette]

 

It's not perfect, but I'm proud of it.

 

 

 

It was a long road to here, but with this joint done I'm confident the project will finish out well.

 

 

Detail shot of the front:

 

 

It's got a gap, but if I'm careful it should fill in between careful clamping, glue, sanding, and finish. The face side is actually a little crushed from the marking knife, so the gap looks two striking knife cuts Wide than it actually is. Those will sand out easily.

 

 

The back was less fortunate:

 

 

But, then, it's the back, so I'm not overly concerned.

 

 

The hardest part of the project is done. I've been wanting to do this joint for a long time just because of how difficult it looked. It was a very good learning experience!

 

 

As for this particular instance of the joint, there are a few quirks. First, the middle dovetail is super wide. This is in part due to my error - I spaced out the dovetails and pins, but miscounted and was one space short. I was considering remarking all the lines, but realized that the center of the panel would have made one dovetail like all biscuit. I didn't much like the sound of that, so a double-wide tail in the center fixed both problems. The second quirk is that the figured wood was a tough wood to hand-miter with a chisel. It chipped out a lot inside the joint, but that really is no problem.

 

 

So, there's that. I have one more joint like that to do (the one connecting the side to the bottom), then I'll prefinish the pieces and assemble the carcase. After that I'll make the drawers and attach the base, then this project will be done! I still have a long way to go, but I'm getting there.