Safety recommendations

[thatCharlieDude]

After a close call today with a carbide chisel and two stitches later I was wondering if anybody had any recommendations for safety equipment, primarily gloves, smocks or jackets? I already have a face shield and respirator so I don't need those.  I want something I can wear over my hands especially my left but not something that will snag or get pulled into the lathe. Thanks! 

[minorhero]

Generally speaking no one in the hobby world wears gloves because of the extreme danger involved in getting the glove stuck in a machine that pulls your hand in. Better stitches then a prosthetic is the thinking.

 

[thatCharlieDude]

The articles I've seen from AAW say fingerless gloves are fine but I do worry about getting something caught.

[..Kev]

They do make cut resistant gloves but, paying attention to hand placement and proper technique is the most important.  

[Gixxerjoe04]

I've seen people wear fingertipless gloves, I've been meaning to make some for myself because taking a long and deep cut sure gets the heat going.  Best advice is to take your time if you're still learning, getting a catch sucks, sucks a lot more with a traditional tool. 

[Marmotjr]

That's a lot more than just two stitches....   The ex medic in me sat down the turner in me and they had a talk, and are confused as to how this happened....  How did you gank yourself so bad on carbide?

Normally I'd say never gloves, but then again, I work in an unheated shop, and have worn fingerless wool gloves myself.  They're just a cheap pair off amazon, not even close to being of a safety grade.  If I were to get a pair of leather ones, I'd go with a pair of sailing racing gloves.  They're leather, fingerless, padded, and elastic so they fit snugly.  Designed to be pulling on ropes and such, they usually have quite a bit of touch to them. 

As to the safety concern about getting pulled into the machinery, I'm fully behind not wearing gloves around my lathe (aside from when it's butt cold out).  First off, it's just another article of clothing to get filled with chips and dust.  And secondly, yes, One could get the glove snagged and get wrapped up into the machine.  But I know that machine is weak enough that I can often stop it with a good catch.  If not the piece spinning between the centers, then once or twice, the belts have slipped if I accidentally took too big of a cut.  On a bigger lathe, or one that didn't have this unintentional clutch, I would seriously hesitate to consider wearing gloves.

 

As to smocks, I haven't found one yet myself.  I'm not sure how my safety they add, but they sure would make cleanup easier.    It's on my wish list, but haven't pulled the trigger yet on buying one.  The nice thing about it, if you order online, and it doesn't fit, it should be easy enough to exchange or return. 

 

*sorry for the rant, just woke, mind is wandering*

[thatCharlieDude]

1 hour ago, Marmotjr said:

That's a lot more than just two stitches....   The ex medic in me sat down the turner in me and they had a talk, and are confused as to how this happened....  How did you gank yourself so bad on carbide?

 

It was just two stitches, I promise. I had a paramedic look at it first and he thought just a bandage would be fine but suggest I have it looked it. The ER doc stitched it up and then had the nurse wrap it all up cuz he wanted me to keep it straight for a few days. 

I was hollowing out a 6" long x 3" diameter bowl without using a tail stock and live center - mistake #1, then I think the tool rest wasn't close enough or adjusted well - mistake #2 and then the big mistake was the carbide was was in a handmade handle and the tang was loose and I think it rotated in the handle.  I should have fixed it but I figured "I'd get to it later."

[Marmotjr]

Oh I believe it was two stitches, but the robocop-esque guard is the surprising part. 

 

Hmmm.   How are we hollowing out with a tail stock?   Could we see pics of your process?

My carbide tool is just one tool with an exchangeable tip,and that's just held in with a set screw, so I feel your pain there, it will work loose on occasion and spin.  But handle coming loose from the tool is a bigger problem.

Take a look at your whole process step by step and see if there are any places you think you might be cutting corners safety wise.

[thatCharlieDude]

1 hour ago, Marmotjr said:

it's just another article of clothing to get filled with chips and dust.  And secondly, yes, One could get the glove snagged and get wrapped up into the machine.  But I know that machine is weak enough that I can often stop it with a good catch. 

As to smocks, I haven't found one yet myself.  I'm not sure how my safety they add, but they sure would make cleanup easier.    It's on my wish list, but haven't pulled the trigger yet on buying one.  The nice thing about it, if you order online, and it doesn't fit, it should be easy enough to exchange or return. 

I think I've decided against wearing gloves and I didn't even consider your suggestion about chips and dust. It's so hot in the shop ATM that I can't even imagine collecting more dust on me.  From my research tonight a lot of turners use nitrile gloves to protect their hands from hot dust and chips and finish. They say the nitrile will rip away easily if it gets caught but this type of gloves wouldn't have protected me today, a fingerless leather glove would have. I've been turning for 8 months now and this is my first injury so I think (hope) I'm doing pretty good.

I'm hoping a nice thick canvas smock or vest will help with splinters and debris but it's just too hot for one now. 

[thatCharlieDude]

4 minutes ago, Marmotjr said:

Hmmm.   How are we hollowing out with a tail stock?   Could we see pics of your process?

My carbide tool is just one tool with an exchangeable tip,and that's just held in with a set screw, so I feel your pain there, it will work loose on occasion and spin.  But handle coming loose from the tool is a bigger problem.

Take a look at your whole process step by step and see if there are any places you think you might be cutting corners safety wise.

I chuck up the piece and I will move up the tail stock to help hold the piece when I first start hollowing it out. I just use the tail stock to get started, didn't use it today. The carbide didn't come out of the handle and I'm not sure it even spun on me but I have a pretty good feeling it did.  I'm not sure how the tool kicked back and cut me, I guess I could have cut my hand on something else, maybe the edge of my workbench or lathe? I'm only assuming the chisel cut me because the catch knocked the tool out of my hand. 

I've been going through what happened and what went wrong, step by step, which is how I came up with those 3 ideas (mistakes). I'll post some pictures tomorrow when the lights' better. 

[Marmotjr]

OK, I see what you mean with the tailstock.  For some reason I was picturing you having the tailstock all the way down in the bowl lol. 

Catches happen, but you can minimize their impact by having that tool rock solid, and the tool rest properly placed.   Never address the work unless the tool is already on the rest, and the tool is in the right orientation to the piece. 

[wtnhighlander]

 

David Marks used to wear a turning smock that appeared to be made of finely-woven nylon, had elastic cuffs, and a flat collar that closed snugly around his neck. Looked reasonably comfortable and light, but shed dust and shavings like rain off a duck.

 

 

As for controlling the tool in a deep hollowing cut, that is a great argument for longer tools. When the rest can't reach close to the work, a longer handle makes it possible to counter-balance the force on the cutting end, by holding it farther back. It may still chatter, especially of the tool shank isn't beefy, but there is less chance of losing control during a catch.

 

 

[thatCharlieDude]

This is how the lathe was set up yesterday when I got injured. The tool rest was probably a little too far back but not as far as I thought. 

This is where the tool was when I got hurt. My hands are in the wrong spot but I would need 3 hands to take the picture and hold the hand correctly.

 

Here's an example of using the tail stock to help hold the piece. Once I get the bowl start about half an inch to an inch I'll pull the tail stock back. It gets too cramped.  I probably should look for a longer and narrower live center. 

The last two are of the piece so far. It's going to be a lidded box for a co-worker. 

[thatCharlieDude]

Seeing that second picture I'm wondering if I cut my thumb on the edge of the bowl. My hand would have been right there. 

[Gixxerjoe04]

I've had my carbide tools way too far hanging off the tool rest when hollowing stuff out, have gotten lucky.  My suggestion would be drill out the center, easier to finish the cut and won't have the chance of the tool hitting the wood going in the opposite direction. 

[Marmotjr]

Turn the tool rest sideways and insert it into the piece (edit: once it's hollowed out), sliding it farther in as you go.   Try to keep the tool rest as close to the workpiece as possible, allowing for the type of tool you're using.  With my bowl gouge, I'll usually keep the rest less than 1/4" from the piece, and adjust as I go.  My carbide has a flat spot that plays wonky if I work on it, so I'm either about an 1/8" or a 1/2" away from the piece. 

In your first pic, I'd slide the banjo so the piece overhangs it.  Then adjust the rest as close as you can.  Even for a facing cut, you really don't need the end of the tool rest to extend much past the center of the work piece, you'll never work on the upward rotating part of the piece.  So slide that banjo out of the way so most of it will fit under the piece, and line up the end of the rest just a bit past center. 

The less of a working arm you have on the piece side of the tool rest, the less likely it will catch.  With just a fraction of an inch exposed, a catch will try to lift up the far end of the tool, but since it doesn't have any leverage vs the handle, it'll just keep cutting (or with a dull tool, throw the piece across the room).  You can have 'accidental' catches with sharp tools with the tool rest close to the piece and not notice, you'll just be taking a heavy cut. 

[Marmotjr]

13 hours ago, thatCharlieDude said:

Here's an example of using the tail stock to help hold the piece. Once I get the bowl start about half an inch to an inch I'll pull the tail stock back. It gets too cramped.  I probably should look for a longer and narrower live center. 

Instead:

1) Sharp tools.  Even with a carbide, make sure it's sharp.   Try a bowl gouge with a fingernail grind if you can somewhere.  Once you've played with a properly sharpened one, you'll sneer at your carbides.  They make cutting into bowls so much easier than anything else.

2) Trust your chuck.  Make sure it's tight and the mortise wall thickness is sufficient for the force being put on it. 

3) If the chuck is still sketchy (and it happens, some pieces are just too fragile), build yourself a steady rest out of a few rollerblade wheels and some plywood.  Using a live center, after about 1/2"-1" in is asking for more trouble than it solves.  If a bowl catches badly and there is a live center, there is a better chance the tool might bind between the workpiece and live center, and that may rip it from your hands and launch the tool, and that's bad.  If there is no live center, the tool will usually kick free of any catches, and while the piece might get launched, it may be heavy, not sharp. 

4) Reverse the lathe, or if you can't do that like I can't, either stand on the other side of the lathe or turn it around.  It'll feel weird at first, but now you won't be leaning over the piece to do the hollowing.  You'll have a more comfortable standing position, and your grip on the tool will feel more natural.   But if you do this, there is now no place for a live center. 

[Tom King]

I glad you weren't hurt worse than that.

[Jean [Fr]]

I wish you a speedy recovery, man !

Maybe I have only two recommendations to say. First you want your tools in good shape : a dull chisel is more dangerous than a sharp one. A sharpen tool is powerful and easier to control. Carbide tools last longer but you can't be sure about the sharpness. Last, and the most important to me, is a ritual every woodworker should have : prior to bring the tool to the piece, take few seconds to think about what you're going to do, the gesture and your close environment. These few seconds will make you a better woodworker, both in skill and safety.

[Jfitz]

On 7/25/2017 at 11:30 PM, thatCharlieDude said:

I was hollowing out a 6" long x 3" diameter bowl without using a tail stock and live center - mistake #1, then I think the tool rest wasn't close enough or adjusted well - mistake #2 and then the big mistake was the carbide was was in a handmade handle and the tang was loose and I think it rotated in the handle.  I should have fixed it but I figured "I'd get to it later."

Sounds like you have some things you could change without having to go the route of wearing gloves.  

Heal quickly!

 

 

[Mark J]

19 hours ago, Gixxerjoe04 said:

I've had my carbide tools way too far hanging off the tool rest when hollowing stuff out, have gotten lucky.  My suggestion would be drill out the center, easier to finish the cut and won't have the chance of the tool hitting the wood going in the opposite direction. 

I'm no expert, but that's my approach.  So far I have only done small bowls, but I use a forstner bit to remove the bulk of the waste from the inside.  

As to the suggestion to use nitrile gloves:  I don't think the level of protection would be worth the loss of tactile sensation and you risk the glove melting which would make any burn worse.

[thatCharlieDude]

2 hours ago, Tom King said:

I glad you weren't hurt worse than that.

Thank you! I think I mostly injured my pride. 

[thatCharlieDude]

2 hours ago, Jean [Fr] said:

I wish you a speedy recovery, man !

Maybe I have only two recommendations to say. First you want your tools in good shape : a dull chisel is more dangerous than a sharp one. A sharpen tool is powerful and easier to control. Carbide tools last longer but you can't be sure about the sharpness. Last, and the most important to me, is a ritual every woodworker should have : prior to bring the tool to the piece, take few seconds to think about what you're going to do, the gesture and your close environment. These few seconds will make you a better woodworker, both in skill and safety.

Tip was brand new so don't think that's what caused the catch. I really like your second point, sounds similar to visualizing scoring a goal/hitting a ball in sports. 

[Gixxerjoe04]

Another reason it caught is probably because you're hollowing end grain and probably tried to take too much off. 

[Jean [Fr]]

3 hours ago, thatCharlieDude said:

Tip was brand new so don't think that's what caused the catch.

What I meant was HSS cuts better than carbide, maybe it's more forgiving. Accidents are often because the addition of different factors coming at the same time. I have some trouble to evaluate carbide tools sharpness anyways. Your bad handle was probably a factor too.