Dan S Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 I have nothing against his product, but I'm getting really sick of hearing about how we should all use it. http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/editorsblog/CPSC+Chief+Wants+Improved+Table+Saw+Safety.aspx Ok, I feel better now that I've vented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewoodwhisperer Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Yeah, getting kind of tired of it too. I am all for increasing safety options on our tools. But before making this some sort of regulation or law, can we find some reasonable alternative technologies that don't put money directly into the patent lawyers pocket? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBaiga Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Yeah, getting kind of tired of it too. I am all for increasing safety options on our tools. But before making this some sort of regulation or law, can we find some reasonable alternative technologies that don't put money directly into the patent lawyers pocket? the patent litigators are the ones that'll get rich, but nothing compared to personal injury ambulance chasers. great product, budgeting for one now. but i'm not a fan of the regulation/legislation pandering. he's got to be patient and let the market come to him rather than trying to have the gov't hand him a monopoly. if it heads in that direction, i think the pandering will backfire. if you put other tool makers backs to the wall, there are many other ways to do proximity sensing not covered by SS patents and I doubt Gass has the money to reduce these to practice. SS can't afford a long price war either. the push for bringing a nanny state into his customers shops lacks a certain level by business smarts, perhaps his backers/investors are getting antsy with their ROI, we shall see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryangel69 Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Careful what you say the Sawstop owners association will throw bricks at your head. They will do it They really will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Careful what you say the Sawstop owners association will throw bricks at your head. They will do it They really will No, we won't. We really won't. I've said in several earlier posts that I think the heavy-handed Sawstop strategy pushing for lawsuits and government regulation is foolish and repugnant. I believe that a lot of vocal anti-Sawstop sentiment is really opposed to these tactics. I think Sawstop technology would be accepted more quickly if it was presented as an option that some people might choose, rather than being pushed down people's throats. I own a Sawstop. I like my Sawstop. I'm pretty pro-Sawstop. But I don't think that they should be mandated by government or the insurance industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimB1 Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Not getting sick per se but I dislike the fear mongering. He has a good point to make and more then that he has a solution to the problem. Can't fault him for that in a world where everyone complains but no one solves. I can however fault him for trying to use government regulation to make a buck. That has never turned out good in the past. Right now SawStop is a good product with a good reputation. Why would he want to take that goodwill and turn it to anger by forcing it on everyone? Best thing that could happen is other solutions start to appear on the market and it will become a regularly used option. I'd love to see this thing hit production. http://www.whirlwindtool.com/ retrofits to near anything, doesn't smash your blade and resets in a second so you can continue working without the need to change a cartridge. As a bonus, it even sucks up 90% of the dust from your saw. How cool is that? -Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChetlovesMer Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 I'm sure it's no surprise that I'd like to weigh in on this topic. I'm the guy with the goatskin leggings dancing around my idols on nights of the full-moon chanting SAWSTOP... SAWSTOP... SAWSTOP... To be clear, I am the biggest Sawstop protagonist there is anywhere. Having said that, I am in NO-WAY in favor of government legislation to regulate this or any other industry. Recently the government added a regulation requiring riving knives on all table saws sold in America. I was not in favor of that regulation either. I will try very hard to keep this from becoming a political discussion, but I am always a proponent of education first, then pure capitalism. Give people the facts and allow the consumer to decide what they value. I think that trying to use government regulation is akin to “dirty pool”. Now if I may at least defend Gass just a tiny bit. I have heard stories which I will not repeat here (because in reality I have never heard both sides) where some of the “big” manufacturers initially tried to block SS from producing or at least advertising their saw. I’ve heard of attempting to muscle them out of showing the saw at woodworking shows and things of that nature. Again, I’ve never had a chance to hear the other sides of the story, but I can at least understand where Gass may have a cross to bear. However, if you ask me I think Gass should take that cross, run it through a SawStop, cut it into planks and build an out-feed table. Maybe he could use WoodWhisper Episode 30 “Somebody Feed Me” for inspiration? I truly believe that Gass and his buddies have built a better mousetrap. Now I believe he should be patient. Sit back and allow the world to beat a path to his door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewoodwhisperer Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 I'd love to see this thing hit production. http://www.whirlwindtool.com/ retrofits to near anything, doesn't smash your blade and resets in a second so you can continue working without the need to change a cartridge. As a bonus, it even sucks up 90% of the dust from your saw. How cool is that? Never heard of the Whirlwind, but holy crap! That looks fantastic! Time to spread the word! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryangel69 Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 That whirlwind is wow I have no words or letters as it would be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stahlee Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Is that a silent g? chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChetlovesMer Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Wow That Whirlwind is pretty cool. The geek in me is wondering how that works. I watched the videos but I didn't surf the entire site. Does it say in there how "finger sensing technology" senses fingers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryangel69 Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 It looked to me like he bumped the bottom of the guard with his thumb and that is the trigger. I could be wrong maybe it is alien technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewoodwhisperer Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Alien intervention would indeed be the coolest explanation. Good eye Chad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimB1 Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Here's what looks like the patent. Looks like he's been working on this for a long time unless this is a totally different Whirlwind Inc. with the same type of product... or he bought the patent. It actually looks like they went the reverse. It doesn't look for flesh, it looks for the absence of wood. In other words, the sensor is looking for the piece being run through the saw blade, anything else triggers the blade stop. No real details about how it does this but interesting... http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=4637289.PN.&OS=PN/4637289&RS=PN/4637289 There are multiple sub patents referenced but I didn't dig in that far. -Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBaiga Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 actually i think this is the relevant whirlwind technology...i posted this in another ss discussion http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=5&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=butler&s2=saw&OS=butler+AND+saw&RS=butler+AND+saw add here's the link to the patent application that their site claims Due to patent disclosure issues we cannot go into further details of “how it works.” basically an electrical capacitance detector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimB1 Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 actually i think this is the relevant whirlwind technology...i posted this in another ss discussion Thanks Tom, I just searched by Whirlwind on the patent directory and the one I posted came up... -Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryangel69 Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Alien intervention would indeed be the coolest explanation. Good eye Chad! Aliens are jealous of our digits. That's it I am gonna call it Stephen Gass is an alien. Also explains all the chanting. Here come more bricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChetlovesMer Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 If it is alien technology, do you thinnk they could apply it to a jointer? My jointer has claimed a chunk of might right middle finger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBaiga Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 actually the alien tech you really want is handheld/portable version of the wayback machine. with a simple press of he button, you rewind the last 30 seconds of time. helpful for avoiding shop accidents and extreme helpful when discussing various topics with your wife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeGauss Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Hey Mark, Why don't you invite Mr. Gass for an interview. Ask if he would be willing to answer some of these questions. It would be interesting alternative to much of the innuendo and speculation that normally happens on this topic. -Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sac Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 actually the alien tech you really want is handheld/portable version of the wayback machine. with a simple press of he button, you rewind the last 30 seconds of time. helpful for avoiding shop accidents and extreme helpful when discussing various topics with your wife. Dude, thats not alien tech, you are thinking of the movie 'Click'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardnesd Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Here's an interesting story. Being a dentist my insurance carrier said they would not deny compensation for a tablesaw injury but they would consider giving me a minor monthly discount if I showed proof of sale of a sawstop. Calculated savings would pay for the saw in 3014...just kidding. Calculated to pay for the saw in about 17 years. It'll probably last that long(contractor saw). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nateswoodworks Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 Whirlwind looks like it uses the light curtains that much of the production equipment uses. Kind of like the light sensors that are at the bottom of your garage doors, same basic principle but but not needing the second sensor. My son watched the video with me and said it is like the sonar that bats use! I think this will hit it big because it can retro-fit older tools as well. As for Gass, being forced to pay money for your protction-isn't that the mob? So far (very early in the game) Whirlwind comes across as a woodworker with a great product that cares and Gass is an attorney wanting a bigger wallet. Both have great products it is just the path that is being taken. All I can say is there is one I would send a Christmas card to and one I wouldn't! Nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave H Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 the aliens have infrared radiation detection? i was reading through the patent link and came across this in the explanation portion. 4. The saw of claim 1 wherein said sensor is an infrared radiation detector. but i do like the wayback machine idea, mr. peabody was ahead of his time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNehlsEnd Posted February 5, 2011 Report Share Posted February 5, 2011 I almost was going to pass reading this post as I didn't want to deal with another debate over Saw Stop, but glad I checked it out. I'm not a fan of Saw Stop from the get go. The reason being is because of the damage it causes. It would be one thing if it prevented and injury, but if it triggers from other faults then a person is not only out the expensive replacement cartridge but also an expensive blade to boot. The Whirlwind seems to be the ticket not causing damage and providing safety at the same time. Glad I read this to learn about the Whirlwind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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