Coop Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 I needed to darken a 1/4” piece of ply that will be used as a back panel on a walnut end table. I bought a bottle of Coffe Brown TransTint and mixed some in with some ARS, which became suspended and not mixed. I mentioned this a while back in another thread but don’t remember where. Tonight, I mixed some up using denatured alcohol and it looks mo betta. Question is, can I now apply ARS over this? As cheap as 1/4 ply is, I could have tried it without creating this thread but I thought others could learn from my mistake. Thanks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 Yes.. Treat the panel and let cure. You'll probably raise the grain a bit so, super light sanding and then finish per normal. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted October 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 Thanks Kev. This is my first try at using dye and it’s pretty amazing as well as intimidating. I give credit to @Brendon_t for me giving it a try. He just didn’t tell me to read the instructions . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 Hope it goes without saying but, always test new stuff on scrap first to ensure you're getting the results you want. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pondhockey Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 [Deleted comment and edit:] Please let us know how it turns out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdwerker Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 I dilute dye more than recommended w alcohol then spray thin coats to build the darkness/intensity of color I'm shooting for. I've found raising the grain by wetting w alcohol or water & lettting it dry then sanding before using dyes or stains to be followed with waterbourne finishes works best for me. Wiping the stain wets the surface more which necessitates a light sanding afterwards. I've got a small HVLP touch up spray gun that runs on compressed air. Techline JR by CA Technologies, it's around $250 for the kit. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted October 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 27 minutes ago, ..Kev said: Hope it goes without saying but, always test new stuff on scrap first to ensure you're getting the results you want. This reminds me of a golf pro’s comment that “ practice doesn’t make perfect, perfect practice does” . This and other woodworking forums are invaluable for this type of discussion. Thanks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve B Anderson Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 Please correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t you need a seal coat between water based and oil based finishes? Our does using alcohol with the dye allow you to go straight to the oil based finish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, Steve B Anderson said: Please correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t you need a seal coat between water based and oil based finishes? Our does using alcohol with the dye allow you to go straight to the oil based finish? There's no water based in his work here. He's only leaving transtint pigment on the surface once the alcohol dries. My only real concern with what Coop is doing is perhaps some blotching. Test pieces should show that though. With that said, I often shoot WB over ARS once the ARS has cured with no issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve B Anderson Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 3 minutes ago, ..Kev said: There's no water based in his work here. He's only leaving transtint pigment on the surface once the alcohol dries. My only real concern with what Coop is doing is perhaps some blotching. Test pieces should show that though. With that said, I often shoot WB over ARS once the ARS has cured with no issue. Thanks Kev, I’ve only used Transtint with water and put a coat of seal coat on before the ARS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, Steve B Anderson said: Thanks Kev, I’ve only used Transtint with water and put a coat of seal coat on before the ARS. All good.. I'm curious how the ARS reacted with the seal coat? I'm used to doing the ARS first where it reacts directly with the wood and then putting the WB on to seal in that reaction. I'll be honest in that I've never tried it the other way round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pondhockey Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 8 minutes ago, ..Kev said: There's no water based in his work here. He's only leaving transtint pigment on the surface once the alcohol dries. My only real concern with what Coop is doing is perhaps some blotching. Test pieces should show that though. With that said, I often shoot WB over ARS once the ARS has cured with no issue. Thanks, Kev. Follow-up question: I took Coop's posts to say that he was using a Trans TInt Dye (not pigment) and I don't find, with my web searching skills, that there is a Trans TInt Coffee Brown pigment. I'm thinking that the dye soaks into the fibers (unlike pigment that might stay on the surface). Otherwise, I understand (and still agree) that any finish can be used over the top. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, Pondhockey said: Thanks, Kev. Follow-up question: I took Coop's posts to say that he was using a Trans TInt Dye (not pigment) and I don't find, with my web searching skills, that there is a Trans TInt Coffee Brown pigment. I'm thinking that the dye soaks into the fibers (unlike pigment that might stay on the surface). Otherwise, I understand (and still agree) that any finish can be used over the top. Pigment may have been the wrong word.. It is a dye.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve B Anderson Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 4 minutes ago, ..Kev said: All good.. I'm curious how the ARS reacted with the seal coat? I'm used to doing the ARS first where it reacts directly with the wood and then putting the WB on to seal in that reaction. I'll be honest in that I've never tried it the other way round. It works well for me on the Mission finishes. First the dye, seal coat, dark gel stain to darken the grain then ARS to finish it out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 Goes to show that following the "norm" doesn't always lead to the results we're looking for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted October 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 To be clear, in my case, and again this is is ply, if that makes a difference, I applied the TransTint/Alcohol mix with a foam brush for the ease of application and this started out as a fiasco. Brush marks everywhere but, it will not be seen as it’s in the back. When it dried, as in minutes, there were no brush marks to be found. Steve, to be clear, this is what I used and this is the results. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pondhockey Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 Coop's probably gone to bed, and look what he started! You guys are both stretching my brain with approaches I've never considered. - Kev: using WB over ARS -Steve: dye, seal coat and THEN gel stain? Sounds like a glaze to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted October 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 I’ve learned from Kev and Chet that WB over ARS is not only acceptable but recommended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pondhockey Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, K Cooper said: I’ve learned from Kev and Chet that WB over ARS is not only acceptable but recommended. Thanks, Coop. I'd love to know where to look for that discussion. Also (since you're still up!) thanks for the results. Since we don't have a "before" pic, can you tell us did the dye enhance the grain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted October 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 8 minutes ago, Pondhockey said: Coop's probably gone to bed, and look what he started Ha! I will not abandon thee! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve B Anderson Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 This is a wine rack I just completed today using the steps a mentioned above. Not the best of pictures but you can see the results. The seal coat is dewaxed shellac and gives the wood that "glow" that ARS does. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted October 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, Pondhockey said: Thanks, Coop. I'd love to know where to look for that discussion. Also (since you're still up!) thanks for the results. Since we don't have a "before" pic, can you tell us did the dye enhance the grain? Since it it ply, anything is an improvement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pondhockey Posted October 29, 2018 Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 Thanks, Coop. Steve, that's really nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted October 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 Steve, very well done. I’ve been hoping for a final pic! Nice!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted October 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2018 20 minutes ago, Pondhockey said: Coop's probably gone to bed, and look what he started! Now, my wife beckons! Good night! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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