Is a table saw still necessary with the advent of track saws?

[JimB1]

I've been thinking about this for a while now just wondering if anyone has bypassed the tablesaw entirely at this point in favor of a track saw or other saw type. Just as a point of information, I currently own a contractor style tablesaw that I like pretty well so this is not a "Should I buy a tablesaw", "What type of tablesaw should I buy", or "How do you like your track saw" question. It's more along the lines of "are we seeing a technology shift that may be a game changer"

I've read a few questions around the repeatability that a TS can give but looking at things like the Festool MFT-3 or even a shop built table to perform similar functions, you should be able to get repeatable cuts with very good accuracy. Things like dados and rabbits can be done with a router or router table just as well as a TS. New miter saws have replaceable inserts so you can make zero clearance inserts and get very clean cuts.

Contractor and Cabinet tablesaws generally run from $500 up and tend to require significant space and power to run and can create significant dust during use and generally aren't very portable. Smaller, portable saws, with few exceptions are screaming loud, have less dust collection capability then contractor or cabinet saws, tend to burn out faster, and are sometimes difficult to cut larger pieces on. Add into that safety questions around kickback and moving blades.

I'm thinking less about production environments then homeowner/hobbyist and small shop environments.

So that's the question, is it still worthwhile to have a table saw in the homeowner/hobbyist or even small shop environments? Has power hand tool design evolved enough to bypass the need for heavy machinery while still providing accuracy, repeatability and safety.

What do you think?

-Jim

[jimmykx250]

The more I look at the festool the more i think you really dont need a table saw. If you have one already (TS)like me than it's tough to justify spending for a festool when you can do it with a TS. There have been several operations where I wish I had the festool tracksaw because it would have been soo much easier. If I were just getting started I would definately bypass the tablesaw and jump into a track saw. Yes it is a gamechanger for sure and i think that will be reflected in the next gen of woodworkers. One other note this is also a personal preference thing i think alot of guys consider the table saw the epi-center of the workshop and wouldent have it any other way.

[bywc]

I wouldn't trade my TS for a track saw for no amount of money personally.

Mostly based on all the jigs I use with my TS there are many actions I could not replicate with a track saw.

[John Anderson]

how aout dados? with the tracksaw it would take multiple passes and a chissle. you could do it with your router, but there is a lot more set up time and more passes. a tablesaw makes this a much easier process all around

[Bobby Slack]

I love my TS75 and use it a lot. Also my little contractor Bosch TS. Festool's plunge saw saves you the space not only on the size of footprint required by a TS but also the real estate it takes to run a sheet of plywood or to rip a long board. I also use my TS for short rips. If you have a contractor saw probably a Festool TS 75 would help you in other ways also and will give you more flexibility. Also remember you can cut huge angles on sheet stock, something it would be painful on a ts plus the quality of cut on a Festool is incredible. Service is second to none, dust collection is no comparison.

[Beechwood Chip]

check out the thread, "Could you live without a table saw?"

[Freddie]

Thin rips?

[PaulMarcel]

I think you could live without the TS if you had a tracksaw and an MFT or MFT-like substrate (that is, CNCed, not marked and drilled by hand). To me, you'd need both to be successful.

On an MFT, you can do thin rips very easily with a fence scale on the offcut side.

There's no mistake that you can walk up to your tablesaw, move the fence to 1" and make a series of rips quickly. No doubt. But the tracksaw can still accomplish that and relatively dust free (100% fines, some chips escape though).

Coincidentally, I produced two video series for a contest on the FOG. Sure, it's a bunch of Festool guys there, but that doesn't mean I won't complain about the obvious oversight on the TS-75's offcut splinter guard.

I still love my cabinet saw, but use my TS-75 a lot including for a lot of tricky cuts. That said, though, you might get some perspective you can use to decide if you wanna go that route. I also produced a series for the MFT system which will answer a lot of your questions about repeatability, cross-cut capacity, calibrating square, and anything else I babbled about.

Here are the thread links (I send you there cuz there are replies that provide more detail; for one, I jumped the gun on the standardized kerfs of the TS-75... that is currently only available for the TS-55)

Video Review of Festool TS-75

Video Review of the Festool MFT System

[thewoodwhisperer]

I love my Festool system, but there are just too many things that would be either difficult (maybe impossible), inconvenient, or just too time consuming with a pure Festool setup. Not saying it can't be done, but I see the Festool as an invaluable ADDITION to my setup, and not as a replacement.

[jmaichel]

I guess it would really depend on how long you have been woodworking for. If you have become accustomed to making rabbets and dados on a table saw than I think it might be hard to do with out. On the other hand I would argue that you are fairly new you could learn to work efficiently without a TS. I don't have a TS I opted for the hand tool method for the time being. I also don't plan on ever getting a table saw. When I do add power tools, it will be a track saw, band saw, router and maybe a domino (this thing is just freaking cool) I would like to continue to do most of the joinery work by hand. Good Luck!

James

[Beechwood Chip]

I agree with James. If someone was just starting out I would advise them to get a tracksaw, a router, and then maybe start on the bandsaw / jointer / planer trio, and see how it goes. Maybe get a table saw later, but not first.

Of course, if they were considering the Neanderthal route then it's a whole different thing.

[Texfire]

One consideration. Assuming the recent jury verdict against Ryobi, and the discussion of flesh sensing technology in the CPSC end up with entry level benchtop and contractor table saws required to incorporate SawStop or equivalent flesh sensing technology. Will this drive the prices up to where track saws become a more viable entry point to the market? Will we see a change in consumer table saws away from wide capacity to a new focus as a tool primarily for cutting dadoes, rabbets and jig work instead of ripping sheet goods?

[BuilderBill]

I love my Festool system, but there are just too many things that would be either difficult (maybe impossible), inconvenient, or just too time consuming with a pure Festool setup. Not saying it can't be done, but I see the Festool as an invaluable ADDITION to my setup, and not as a replacement.

+1, cutting tenons is the first thing that comes to mind....

Bill

[jmaichel]

+1, cutting tenons is the first thing that comes to mind....

Bill

I would argue with a little bit of practice, overtime you could eventually cut tenons by hand almost as fast.

James

[DerekG]

I do a lot of crosscutting on mine. It is stuff a miter saw or RAS would do I suppose. But with a nice miter gauge it is much quicker to drop it on the saw and trim it off.

[harryangel69]

I think the real question I have been asking myself the last couple of weeks is how much of a table saw I really need. I started out ofter a cabinet saw. Then decided a hybrid would be better just in size alone. I just can't believe I need a 50 inch extension for anything. Now I even second guessing that. I do believe I could get by without it, but if I really don't have to why would I. For those applications that are just faster and easier on the table saw how much is too much. Why would a contractor saw not work 99% of the time. Assuming it was set up properly.

[BuilderBill]

I would argue with a little bit of practice, overtime you could eventually cut tenons by hand almost as fast.

James

James,

I've had a lot of practice and can easily cut a tenon or maybe two by hand faster than it takes me to set up for them on a table saw, but how often do you cut one or two tenons? Most of the time it's four for a single panel or eight for a table skirt and if you're doing multiple doors or drawer fronts or case sides or dividers it's a whole bunch more.....

YMMV but I prefer to spend my time enjoying the fruits of my labor instead of laboring to produce the fruit.

And the discussion is about the relative merits of track saws and table saws, neither of which were hand-powered the last I heard.

Bill

[BuilderBill]

I think the real question I have been asking myself the last couple of weeks is how much of a table saw I really need. I started out ofter a cabinet saw. Then decided a hybrid would be better just in size alone. I just can't believe I need a 50 inch extension for anything. Now I even second guessing that. I do believe I could get by without it, but if I really don't have to why would I. For those applications that are just faster and easier on the table saw how much is too much. Why would a contractor saw not work 99% of the time. Assuming it was set up properly.

Chad,

Sounds to me like you need to define your needs. Are you going to be doing cabinet work where you'll need to make wide rips? How much room do you have available? Or are you going to be doing average stuff where a 24" case side will be the widest piece you'll ever cut? Are you going to be piddling around in the basement or making cabinets for a living? What materials are you planning on using? A saw that just gets by on 2x pine will choke and throw up when fed 8/4 hard maple or perform stunningly when ripping 3/4 ply for cabinets.

The reason manufacturers offer so many options is that no one size really fits all. Obviously there are differences in overall quality between various makes/models of saws but you have to decide the level of quality you're willing to accept, the price you're willing to pay, the space you have available and (arguably the most important), how much of a "fiddle factor" you're willing to undertake. With enough time, money, aftermarket parts and effort you can make the lowliest contractor saw cut just as accurately as a high-end cab saw, the question is how far are you willing to go? Other factors are environmental concerns(dust collection, safety equipment and noise level), power requirements, availability and size/weight(the best saw in the world won't do you a bit of good if you can't get it into the house or plug it in when you get it there or if the floor collapses under it).

Sorry, but there's just no way to answer your question as asked, too many variables. Set some goals, make some decisions and do some research, you'll figure it out for yourself given some time and effort.

HTH,

Bill

[jmaichel]

James,

I've had a lot of practice and can easily cut a tenon or maybe two by hand faster than it takes me to set up for them on a table saw, but how often do you cut one or two tenons? Most of the time it's four for a single panel or eight for a table skirt and if you're doing multiple doors or drawer fronts or case sides or dividers it's a whole bunch more.....

YMMV but I prefer to spend my time enjoying the fruits of my labor instead of laboring to produce the fruit.

And the discussion is about the relative merits of track saws and table saws, neither of which were hand-powered the last I heard.

Bill

Bill,

You have a valid point. I guess it just depends on what you enjoy more the process or the end result. I would say that if you are going to get a table saw get a good one that can produce consistent results.

James

[bywc]

by passing all the side topics about different functions or hand powered vs electric.

For me it comes down to the cost by doing a albeit fast search just it appears if your going to get a track saw with a good length of track to cover over 8 foot your talking around $500+ at that price you can get a pretty good table/bench saw that can do the same job plus a whole lot more and a cheaper circ saw which works just fine for rough cutting sheet goods.

For me it comes down to if the price of a shovel was the same price as a digger why would I buy the shovel when the digger can do the same job plus so much more.

And honestly the price of these track saws are stupid plain and simple its just a darn circular saw that runs in some track, Even some of the highest priced circ saws I seen doing a quick search on Google were only in the $200 mark so how on earth can they justify that little piece of track costing $300+?

[flairwoodworks]

While I like the idea of track saws and the MFT (I have neither), I would not give up my tablesaw as I use it for many small cuts as well as joinery which I feel are best done on a tablesaw.

[tim0625]

In my opinion, to replace the traditional TS system, the mousetrap will have to be even better than the Festool system. The traditional TS, a 3/8 rachet wrench, and good ol ketchup have survived because they are both basic and versatile. Festool has a good system, but like Marc said, as "an addition" for more specialized applications like large crosscuts or when the grain is askew but I don't think the mousetrap is so good that it can replace the table saw system. In all honesty and at the risk of causing great unrest among the Festoolites...a straight piece of heavy angle iron, a square, a couple of clamps, and a good circular saw will get us close if not dead on. Cosmo Kramer would say "replace my table saw?...kooky talk!!" but out of the box thinking and challenging traditional ways has advanced us to where we are!

[amaonline]

For me both are a must have. I can say there have been times that I have used the track saw on jobs that before I would have had to load up the ol'contractors saw. I was able to do the job and do it well with the track saw and saved my back from further abuse.

[Pete Bennett]

In my opinion, to replace the traditional TS system, the mousetrap will have to be even better than the Festool system. The traditional TS, a 3/8 rachet wrench, and good ol ketchup have survived because they are both basic and versatile. Festool has a good system, but like Marc said, as "an addition" for more specialized applications like large crosscuts or when the grain is askew but I don't think the mousetrap is so good that it can replace the table saw system. In all honesty and at the risk of causing great unrest among the Festoolites...a straight piece of heavy angle iron, a square, a couple of clamps, and a good circular saw will get us close if not dead on. Cosmo Kramer would say "replace my table saw?...kooky talk!!" but out of the box thinking and challenging traditional ways has advanced us to where we are!

Never used a track saw but I've clamped a straight edge and used a hand held power saw many, many times over a lifetime and never had a problem. Hell of a lot cheaper to boot.

Pete

[stidrvr]

I posted almost the same thing on either FOG or Junkie. Although a lot of the same answers came up, I think it boils down to what type of work you do. And when and where the money is going to come from. For me, I have a ton of sheet good projects to do. Where a tracksaw would be optimal for breaking them down. I dont care what anyone says, that a TS can do it just as easy, that is BS. That is only valid if you have your TS setup with outfeed tables and side table to support work. Try cross cutting 4x8 plywood in 23.5" pieces with one out feed stand, not easy. Granted I already have a TS, but I really wanted a tracksaw too. Reguardless I still dont have a tracksaw, as other finicial obligations came up and woodworking got put on hold.

If I had to do it over again, I would have gotten a tracksaw instead of a tablesaw, no questions asked.