Okay, has anyone tried to sound proof their shop?

[ChetlovesMer]

Okay so here's my set up.

It's probably fairly common. My shop shares one wall with my garage, other than that, the other three walls are exterior walls. The wall between the shop and the garage is insulated, so are the walls of the garage. However, my son's room is on the other side of the garage... Okay if you're not following this as we move from West to East, we have my 24' x 24' shop, an insulated wall, my 24' x 25' foot garage, another insulated wall, then my son's room.

Here's my problem. I'm a Normite at heart. Yes, I own planes and hand-tools but I love my sliding compound miter saw, my band saw, my jointer, my planer, my spindle sander, my drill press ... oh yes, and especially my table saw. All of those tools compined with the dust collector makes noise. That noise travels through the insulated wall to the garage and then even through the second insulated wall into my son's room. Mind you, it is not terrible, but definitely audible.

Here are my thoughts:

What if I cover the wall between the shop and the garage with sound absorbing ceiling tiles?

What if I cover it with another layer of drywall, maybe isolate it from the first wall with some foam or rubber?

What about putting acustic tiles all over the wall between the shop and the garage?

My thought it if I kill most of the sound getting into the garage, I'd kill all of the sound getting into my son's room.

Anyone try anything like this?

Did it work?

Any other suggestions?

I would tell my son to get used to it, but he's only 16 months old and I don't think his mommy will think I'm funny or clever.

[Beechwood Chip]

If it were me, I'd glue rigid insulation to the drywall, and then glue drywall on top of that. Sound will travel very well through hard things like metal, concrete, and wood, so you don't want any nails, screws, or firring strips between the drywall, just glue and insulation. The idea is that the sound hits the drywall and tries to move it. but the drywall is heavy, so it can only move it a little. That little motion is transmitted to the insulation, and the mostly the insulation just flexes. There's a little motion transmitted to the far drywall, but it's heavy and hard to move, so very little motion comes out the other side. Caulk the edges with non-hardening caulk. You don't want any air gaps or hard paths for sound to travel through.

You may find that the sound still travels through your cement slab, ceiling joists, etc.

What I've heard is that to block sound you need mass (something heavy like drywall) that's not attached rigidly, so there's nothing hard for the sound to travel through. I figure that the rigid insulation is yielding enough to break the path, but strong enough to hold the drywall. But, I haven't tried it myself.

[Onboard]

If you don’t’ mind doing some reading, here are some resources for sound proofing walls.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

[Ben@FineWoodworking]

Mass is right. I'm a recording engineer and have built/designed my fair share of studios.

Double layers of drywall. Air gaps. Changes in density.

Mass mass mass.

It seems like there must be something adding to the problem though. Could there be ducting between the two spaces?

That's an awful lot of physical space for too much sound to make its way through.

(null)

[tim0625]

Thoughts...I think I'd listen to SonicFedora....A recording engineer definitely knows some things about how to stop the noises you do not desire. I've run sound in a lot of church situations, and you fight 'hard things' because they reflect sounds and transfer them through walls. The wall in question needs 1) to have more mass. A rigid wall that's thick enough is sound proof but buddy, that's thick. or 2) be softer. Thinner walls have to be of softer materials that absorb and trap sound. In an office I worked at once, we had cubicles for making phone calls separated by walls that were only 3 feet deep but extended floor to ceiling. The entire room was covered in a low pile indoor/outdoor carpet - floors and walls and each caller was almost isolated from the person beside him in the next cubicle. Point-soft and [sound] absorbent. Depending on money, you could: 1-build an additional wall and spray insulation between studs - sprayed insulation is a little pricey but if you did this and THEN upgraded to 2x6 studs, you could go Criminal Minds in the garage and no one would hear you.... 2 - build the wall and fill it between the studs with rigid styrofoam and sheet rock over it OR 3 - cover the wall with 4x8 panels of the firm/rigid foam used in construction and cover that with ceiling tiles. If it doesn't look as good as you want, go back and insert 2x2s floor to ceiling on 16" centers and cut the foam to fit and sheet rock it all. Fill up the 3 1/2" depth with the foam. If all of that fails, you could just hang Wal Mart tapestries and sing Kumbaya.....heyyy....a couple black lights....a disco ball....a little Boston....

[PeteJr]

You need an air gap. You may laugh at this but I stapled Styrofoam egg cartons to the drywall ceiling of a small shop under a bedroom and the air gap they provided cut the noise transmission significantly. So anything you can do to provide an air gap will help.

[tim0625]

Two of you now have mentioned the air gaps....and Chet, you mentioned ceiling tiles....what about vertical 2x2s for the gap with ceiling tiles attached? How does this sound? Should be fairly cheap to try. Let us know Chet what you decide and how it works. My shop is not attached but I hear many on this site with attached garages and basement shops so the info will help. Hey Sonic...put your engineering cap on...our tools mostly emit the much higher frequencies so that's a concern for our hearing but with little bass, does that affect the way we sound proof?

[ChetlovesMer]

I'm going to be trying something here soon.

I'll keep everyone posted on my success and/or failure.

Thanks for all the advice. .... air gaps...hmmmmm............

[Ben@FineWoodworking]

Yes tools are higher frequencies but compared to other noise problems I'd more likely classify them in the "high mid" range. So tool noise wouldn't fall in a specialized frequency range. You're still going for an overall sound proofing.

Highs are much easier to block. Tightness is key. Making sure there are no gaps will do a lot of good. Air gaps are huge but you want them to be true air gaps if you can. As few supports as possible.

Anytime there is a change in density it uses up more of the sound waves energy to get through to the next layer. I once built a box for guitar amps that used density changes as it's main sound fighting weapon.

It was Mdf, foam insulation, particle board, air gap, particle board, insulation and Mdf.

You could stick a hundred watt Marshall in there and have a comfortable conversation standing next to a screaming amp.

I still say there has to be something in the room transmitting the sound to your sons room. There could be a fairly easy fix. Hmmm.

(null)

[Vic]

I'm going to be trying something here soon.

I'll keep everyone posted on my success and/or failure.

Thanks for all the advice. .... air gaps...hmmmmm............

Yes, air gaps. It's preferable you fill those air gaps with an insulation. Most of the sound will be traveling via sounds wave through air gaps and conduction via mass touching mass. Most "sound proofing" materials rely on varying air gaps within a product. Even building a 2x4 wall an inch away with that space being filled with fiberglass batting in the cavities of the structure and a 1" board of rigid insulation between the conductive members will do a lot to deaden the sound. Be sure to fill all air leaks, as that is still the path of least resistance for the sound.

[Jim DaddyO]

Sonic has it right.

Soundproofing is actually a misnomer. You want to "isolate" the noise. Your best bet is to make a sealed MSM (mass/spring/mass) wall between the shop and garage. A double layer of 5/8 drywall, each layer sealed.

Hang the drywall so there is a 1/4" gap all around the perimeter. Stuff the gap with foam backer rod and caulk. Make sure none of the seams on the second layer line up with the seams of the first layer. It is better to hang the first layer vertically (the wrong way).

The 2 layers of drywall is lots of mass, now you need the spring, the bigger the better (up to a point). It works out pretty nice that you can stud a wall with 2x4, leave a gap the width of a 2x4 (3 1/2") or 2x6 (5 1/2"), then stud out another wall to match (now you can buy insulation that matches the cavities). Then attach a double layer of 5/8 drywall to the outside of the second wall. Now you have a big cavity that you can fill with rockwool insulation (um, do this before completely closing in the cavity with your drywall).

You now have very good isolation. A large mass of 1 1/4" of drywall, a 10 1/2" (or bigger) cavity filled with insulation, and then another mass of 1 1/4 drywall that is not touching the first mass. Remember that you will still get noise transmission trough any holes or gaps and that sound will travel through anything that is shared between the 2 rooms (the floor, ceiling, ducts, pipes), although if the floor is concrete (mass) the sound transmission should not be too bad. There are fancy (and expensive) ways to bond the layers of drywall together (green glue, which isn't actually a glue) to do a better job, but we are not building a studio here. With a bit of planning, and some sweat equity (I hate drywalling) you can do a pretty good job of isolating.

[ChetlovesMer]

Okay, so I went to my locacl box store with credit card in hand, my plan was order materials to build a second wall within the first wall. The second wall out of 2x2's and then put ridgid insulation between the two. Okay so I get there and they have acoustic ceiling tiles 4'x2' on sale for $2.40 each with a 1 dollar rebate on each one you buy. So, that's like a buck, forty each. Hmmm.... me thinks....

I decided to try something. I covered the entire wall with acoustic ceiling tiles. I just used construction adhesive and went to town. (By the way, Loctite Power Grab is awesome stuff.) Then I cauked a huge a$$ bead of cauk where the wall meets the floor. After all, the wall was added after the 4 car garage was build, in order to split the room in to a garage and a workshop.

Then I turned on some music really loud in my shop and stood in the garage part. ... Not bad...

I was feeling quite proud of myself so I showed my wife. She looked at it and said "You should cover the ceiling too."

Okay, So I did. It was a lot harded to do the ceiling, but Holly crap, it worked!

I turned on the music on in the shop really loud and stood in the garage. Amazing, you just barely hear it. I went in the house, into my son's room. I couldn't hear it at all.

Time for the real test. I went to work planing boards for the new Roubo. Dust collector and planer going full blast. My wife said she couldn't hear me at all in the boy's room. Awesome! We've done it.

I'm not sure I completely understand why it works. I'm not naive enough to believe that "Acoustic Ceiling Tiles" are called that for anything more than marketing reasons, but it worked. (Heck maybe it was the cauk on the floor.) Anyway, my plan was to build another wall up against my ceiling tile covered wall if this didn't work. But it looks like I won't have to.

The only sad part of the story is that I bought 100 tiles to do the one wall and the ceiling, and you can only send in a rebate for the first 64 you buy. .... Minor Bummer.

A final note, it doesn't seem as loud INSIDE the shop now either. Maybe I'm imagining that...

Anyhow, thanks to everyone for their good advice and help. I really appreciate it. I now have opened up a ton of additional time I can spend making noise in the shop while my family (mostly my son) naps, sleeps or what ever.

[Ben@FineWoodworking]

It doesn't seem as loud because you are cutting down on the reflections. Less of the noise is bouncing off the walls and back at you.

I'm glad you got everything worked out. Now you can work all night and not bother a soul. Sadly my basement shop will never allow that.

(null)

[ChetlovesMer]

. Now you can work all night and not bother a soul. Sadly my basement shop will never allow that.

Any chance the other members of your household would agree to wearing earplugs at night?

[tim0625]

It doesn't seem as loud because you are cutting down on the reflections. Less of the noise is bouncing off the walls and back at you.

I'm glad you got everything worked out. Now you can work all night and not bother a soul. Sadly my basement shop will never allow that.

(null)

Sure it would.....cover 4 walls AND the ceiling like Chet did and you're gold. Maybe two layers on the ceiling.

A little music, some shuffling and you're making midnight dust....I'm sorry ....that doesn't even sound legal.

[DeanJackson]

Homosote (similar to drywall) is designed to soak up sound. The ceiling tiles are probably *very* similar to it; nice one!

[WoodNoob]

I'm going to jump on this thread rather than making one of my own!

Similar issue, except my nascent shop is in my one car garage, which unbelievably shares a wall with our next door neighbour's bedroom!

I understand everything that's been said here, but I have an extra issue:

The garage door will let a LOT of noise pass through, as it's just tin. In fact the blasted thing itself makes a lot of noise when I raise or lower it! The motor and chain combo seems to screech a fair bit. Anyway, that's off topic....

How do I go about insulating something like an remote-operated garage door??

I guess I could put acoustic tiles on it, but there's going to be gaps around it as well.

[Beechwood Chip]

Well, you could replace it with an insulated garage door. They are mostly designed for heat/cold, but I imagine that they help with sound, too. When my garage door screeches I hit it with some WD40 (hinges, rollers, and chain).

[ChetlovesMer]

I do the WD40 thing as well.

They make Garage Door Insulation Kits. Some are better than others at insulating as well as reducing noise pass-through.

I'm not sure how much that will do. Geeze, I wish I had a better idea, maybe Sonic can help.

Sonic?

[WoodNoob]

I mean, there's room between the tin of the door and the bracing frame of the door to potentially put some kind of insulation there and then perhaps cover that with some ply or something. But it'd all be a lot of effort and money to spend if it's not going to do much! Once I did that, and added an internal wall against the shared brick wall, and also added a false ceiling.... would I then still have problems around the edges of the garage door?

[ChetlovesMer]

Wow, Woodnob, I'd like to tell you, but man I just don't know.

I feel very lucky to have solved my sound problem and yours adds a second layer of complexity.

I think I'd be speaking outside of my pay-grade on this one.

[Ben@FineWoodworking]

I got nothing on that one... um... false wall?

Do you actually use the garage door? If there is a way around it I'd build over it.

Wow. Tough one there.

(null)

[WoodNoob]

Rats - what I wanted to hear was "yep, that's easy and cheap to fix, here's how..."

But oh well - I guess I'll just have to keep my noisy stuff to the afternoons, oh, because, this is the other complexity - the people on the other side of the wall work night shift! So they don't get up til around 3pm! I've been known to drag my (admittedly small and fairly portable) bench/saw combo around to the front yard when I want to get things done.

[Beechwood Chip]

I'm with sonic. Insulating the door while still having it roll open and closed is a difficult problem. How about if you make some plywood/insulation/drywall panels that you can lean up against the door when you are working? Another possibility is hanging a really heavy curtain (think heavy rug). Remember, mass is what stops sound, so it's got be heavy.

[Beechwood Chip]

I came up with an idea. This is right off the top of my head, so you'll need to work out the details on your own.

Get some heavy waterproof canvas, larger than you garage door (maybe 8" larger all around). You'll need four layers that size. You may need to sew sheets together to make a big enough sheets.

Cut drywall into strips maybe 3" thick. Lay them on the canvas from side to side with about 2" between each strip. Lay another piece of canvas on top. Sew around all the sides and between each strip of drywall.

Do the same with the other two pieces of canvas. You now have two very heavy "curtains" that will roll up vertically.

Hang them from the top of your garage on the outside. Hang them so that the strips of drywall in the inner curtain line up with the gaps in the outer curtain.

Roll up the two curtains and secure with straps. You may need pulleys or tackle to lift and roll the curtains. The pulleys and tackle could be removed after the curtains are secure.

When lowered, the curtains will cover the garage door opening outside the door, and will provide the mass and changes in density needed to dissipate sound. They will hang all the way to the ground, and overlap on the sides and top.