Bench Chisel Choosing

[Tony Wilkins]

I'm still toying with the idea of getting at least one chisel in Imperial size to supplement my slowly growing selection of Japanese chisels for specific uses and to see if I like the idea of tool slaving/cooperative workshop.

I didn't include all the brands but these are the ones I'm primarily looking at. I also didn't include vintage because that depends on if I can find them. Still I would appreciate input on vintage - where to find, what brands to look for, what to avoid. I've heard the War Department marked ones are good (USA and USN).

Please feel free to comment on your vote and point out if there is another brand I should consider.

[areynoldsre]

If I was going to buy I'd have two plans: Lie Niesion for wood projects. I'd keep these in a locked tool box hiden in a floor safe.

Then I'd go to the local hardware store and buy a cheap set for my friends to use when opening paint cans.

No you can't borrow my chisels...

[nikbrown]

I have the Ashley Iles set but now I'm working on a set of japanese one at a time. The Ashley Iles (version 1) are to tall and top heavy for good Chopping, at least for me. The newer American Pattern ones look like a better form factor.

[Trip]

Would add a Japanese brand (or two) or maybe just a 'Japanese-style' designation to your poll...

[Jodavis]

i bought the narex chisels im very happy with them

very reasonable too

[lighthearted]

i have two cherries.

[Onboard]

Here’s an alternative to the Lie Nielsen chisels. A little more expensive. The handles seem to have a different shape which would be a preference thing.

[Tony Wilkins]

Onboard, those are the one's I was referencing on the poll. Thanks for linking them as they are just out I believe.

[aengland]

A friend (Chris G) got the new Veritas chisels and they are every bit the equal of my Lie Nielson chisels--very high quality with super use traits: sharpen easily, hold an edge, thin walls, very well balanced, and light! Now, I've pounded my LNs and love them. So far I've no regrets for purchasing these! On the side, I've been scooping up a few vintage Stanley 750s, all with issues for a cheap buy-in. The 750s once restored work quite well, too. However, what people have done to chisels is aweful, so restoring a few has taken alot of work. I now advocate to others that the extra money invested in quality is really worth all the tedium to figure out and fix the cheaper vintage rehabs.

[ChrisG]

Tough choice. Best value goes to AI chisels. I haven't used the Blue Spruce or the Barr, but I love both the LN (Archie owns them) and the Veritas (I own them). As Archie said they are absolute equals in quality and both very balanced and comfortable. It comes down to personal preference, but here are my thoughts and some things to consider.

Balance: Both are very balanced and surprisingly light. I prefer the balance on the LV every so slightly, but that's probably because that's what I'm used to. Very personal and unless you use them side by side you'll never know the difference. I will however, say that the weight and balance on the LVs is really something to behold. They look (and are) incredibly substantive, but when you hold them it feels like your holding something much smaller. They look and can act as a heavy duty chisel, but in hand they feel like a detail/finesse tool. That's not to say that's the LNs don't share that trait, they too are substantive yet light and balanced, I was just a little bit more struck by this in the LVs.

Handles: I prefer the combined socket/tang design of the LVs. Yes there are some advantages to a true socket chisel, but personally, I drop enough stuff as it is, and wouldn't want to worry about the handles falling out (yes I realize there are fixes for that). As for shape, the LN handle has a nice bulb and consistent taper, so it sorta just feels good no matter how you hold it, and overall I think I like its shape a little more than the LV's - but really its a tough call for me. The LV has a bit more of an deliberately ergonomic design and there's more of a feeling of a right way to hold it (if that makes sense). Its quite comfortable actually, and gives you a lot of control and power when paring, but I think anytime you have something that is more shapely and ergonomic there is going to be a certain portion of the population who the shape just doesn't fit. I'll admit that it took me a few uses to get used to the LV handle shape where as I like the LN handle right away - that said, once I used to the LV handle I really came to love it.

Steel: LN gives you the option of A2 or O1. If you absolutely want A2 that kinda settles it. Personally for chisels, I prefer 01, since it allows more flexibility with the bevel angle. A2 really is best at 30 degrees or above. Also, my understanding is that the extra "strength" of A2 is more about wear resistance than shock resistance, and thus it is more beneficial in plane blades than chisels. I can tell you that the LV O1 chisels take and hold and edge as good as any I've ever used at 27 degrees or above. They probably hold an edge at lower than that too, but 27 degrees is the lowest any of mine are honed at so I can't speak to how the edge holds at a lower angle. I can also tell you that the LN A2 chisel take and hold and incredible edge at 30 degrees or above - I cannot speak to how well they will hold an edge below that.

So there you go - tough choice. The biggest difference is probably the handle/handle type, especially if you are comparing 01 to 01. So I guess if you are trying to decided between the LN or LV think about which handle type and shape appeals to you more.

I can't say overall which one I'd buy if I were buying because I have a bias towards my own. You'll probably be very happy with either brand for your entire woodworking life.

(EDIT: Oh yeah, LN makes a 1/8 and its part of their 5 piece set (1/8 - 3/4), LV's is 1/4" - 1" and they do not yet make a 1/8". Just one more thing to consider)

[Onboard]

Chris, that was a very good write up on the Lie Nielsen versus Lee Valley (Veritas) chisels. I think it would be nice if you posted this in the Community / Reviews sub-forum. I’m sure that along with Tony, there are a number of us that are curious about the newly introduced Veritas chisels.

[ChrisG]

Chris, that was a very good write up on the Lie Nielsen versus Lee Valley (Veritas) chisels. I think it would be nice if you posted this in the Community / Reviews sub-forum. I’m sure that along with Tony, there are a number of us that are curious about the newly introduced Veritas chisels.

Done....

Thanks onboard, glad you liked it. I just got the LV LA Jack too and went over to Archie's this weekend and used it side by side with his LN LA Jack (you might say we had a low-angle jack off). That was an interesting comparison also. While they are, of course, in many ways very similar, in use they are suprisinly different planes. Both great though... hard to sat which I like better overall. Obviously, they've both been around for quite a while so there's not much to say about them that hasn't already been said, but actually using two competing planes side by side is really eye opening (and just plain fun)....

[derekcohen]

For those interested in the Veritas chisels, my review (long) is here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasChiselReview.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[flairwoodworks]

i have two cherries.

Will you share one?

[Tony Wilkins]

Question on the Lie-Nielson (ok, two):

1. I've read that the handles come out of the socket too easily - is this still correct?

2. How long does it take to get them if you order them?

[DeGauss]

I have a large set of Narex chisles which have been a good value and I have used them on a variety of projects. I added a set of Blue Spuce here recentlly and I dont think you will find better fit and finish on any of the listed chisels. They are fantastic to use.

[Tony Wilkins]

Through all this I'm still liking the look of Barr Chisels. Then it would be the Veritas. Then Lie-Nielsen. The price of the Ashley Iles is quite compelling though. I know it would be the same thing with the Barr but the time to get Blue Spuce is hanging me up as well.

[Jodavis]

I have a large set of Narex chisles which have been a good value and I have used them on a variety of projects. I added a set of Blue Spuce here recentlly and I dont think you will find better fit and finish on any of the listed chisels. They are fantastic to use.

So what do you feel is the usable difference or feel between blue spruce & narex?

[Onboard]

I see that Narex makes several types of chisels in addition to their standard bevel edged chisels. A premium or classic bevel edged chisel (costs more), mortising chisels and a couple of skew chisel pairs. Highland calls their tapered beveled edge chisels “Premium” and Lee Valley calls them “Classical”. Same chisel though.

For the most part you “get what you pay for”. Narex is a low cost chisel and it would be unrealistic to expect the same quality and performance of the higher priced chisels such as the ones listed in Tony’s survey. However, for those of us who are budget restricted, Narex seems to be a viable option. Here’s a forum link discussing one woodworkers experience with Narex chisels. Please read to then end of the thread to see what this woodworker concluded compared to his initial remarks.

Lee Valley’s main page for the Narex chisel line.

Highland Woodworking’s main page for the Narex chisel line.

Note on handle differences: I noticed that the Lee Valley Narex chisel handles are stained dark, whereas Highland Woodworking’s Narex handles are light or medium in tone. I’m guessing Lee Valley wanted to distinguish their Narex chisels from other suppliers of same. I also saw that the Highland Woodworking page for the “premium” bench chisels have a very different handle than the rest of the Narex line or Lee Valley’s. Maybe the Highland “premium” chisels are an older line, but that’s just a guess.

[Tony Wilkins]

My idea (and I hope it is valid) is to go for quality over quantity. I am starting out with small projects so I don't need a lot of large chisels right now.

[Onboard]

I would agree with that Tony. Since there were a number of comments on Narex, I thought I would throw in some thoughts on the Narex chisels. My budget dictates chisels such as Narex, even if I were to purchase only one or a few chisels. However, if I had a budget for the higher quality chisels, I certainly would want to purchase those, and especially if I were looking only to purchase one or a few chisels.

With the various differences in “feel” in terms of handles and how the chisel performs in use, it would be nice if there was someway to “try before you buy”. I know Lie Nielson has their Hand Tool Events where you can go and try out the various products including chisels. If none of the currently scheduled events are in your area you could contact LN to see when they might. For now, maybe a woodworking club or guild local to you would have members who would allow you to come to their shop and try out some of the other brands of chisels.

[Jodavis]

Let me be specific, he said that he owns the same chisels that I do so I was curious as to what his opinion is on the difference now that he has upgraded to blue spruce other than a pretty finish.

[Tony Wilkins]

Jodavis, hopefully he'll chime in on that.

Well, after talking with Dave Jeske on the phone and exchanging a few emails I've got a Blue Spruce 3/4" in the works.

[DeGauss]

So what do you feel is the usable difference or feel between blue spruce & narex?

The Blue Spuce have a better balance and feel. The sides have a sharper incline that allow them to get into tight spaces. The rubber top on the Narex also is not a feature I prefer. The narex also took some work initally to get them tuned up, while the BS were great out of the box. Both work well but the Blue Spuce are a much nice tool.

[Jodavis]

Well I pulled the trigger on a set of matsumura blue steel chisels from Japan woodworker Sunday I'll let you know what I think once I get them