Eric. Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 I like the "about me" stuff you did on the home page and the website is simple and easy to navigate. Obviously you need some more pieces to display and those will come with time, but I think most important is that you go get your pieces photographed at a pro studio unless you have some photo skills yourself. It's a must, IMO. Nothing says amateur like rough phone pics. A good start though, Mel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted October 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 Thanks! I appreciate the honesty! I do need much better pics. That is one thing I know I'm lazy with. It's just so easy to snap a phone pic.I am looking into a studio for pics. I have an ok camera, but to portray professionalism it is important to make the best effort I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 Mel, Basic site layout and concept is very good indeed. I personally would like the "Brand" name to be a little bigger and the phone number a little larger too. Like Eric says photos are a big deal here. To contrast with Eric slightly I think context is more important than the quality of the photo although of course fuzzy out of focus is a no no. Dressing this stuff up is not something I'm very good at, but the buyer needs all the help you can give them to push the button. Or for just the pieces like Eric says a studio would be cool. For instance the maker in context are quite cool. Not saying anything below should be copied but they all make me feel ready to hand over money so to speak. And oddly enough amoungst all the great work I think the reindeer are brilliant! If you make it to craft fairs have a few of these on hand, typically these kinds of things sell very well and priced as they are they allow people to buy without thinking too much about it. All in all a good foundation on which to build. Most of my good stuff is on other peoples sites http://www.lcarchitects.co.uk/lca/contemporary_proj11.html although some ok images are here http://www.flickr.com/photos/81921276@N05/ btw I cant believe my bro took photos of black hinges with yellow pass screws! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Mel, Just had the chance to visit your site. Overall, I like it but, agree with some of the comments above. Bigger phone number Better staged photos On the photo front, I would also suggest removing the 'progression' photos. Where the woodworking community understands them and what a shop probably looks like at that point of a build, your potential clients probably do not. To them, your shop may look 'messy and disorganized'. Keep it up, you're on the right track! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted October 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Thanks so much for all of the feedback! My thought with the progression photos was to provide a story telling how the piece was made. I want to emphasize the use of hand work in order to break away from the "big box" mentality. Perhaps there is a more elegant way to do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Thanks so much for all of the feedback! My thought with the progression photos was to provide a story telling how the piece was made. I want to emphasize the use of hand work in order to break away from the "big box" mentality. Perhaps there is a more elegant way to do this. Bingo! I think that's what I did a piss poor job of saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pghmyn Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 This is why I only build for myself and my family. When anyone else approaches me to build them something, I just tell them, "You won't wanna pay what I'll have to charge you." And that's that. A lot of times when I price a project for anyone I have a new tool or accessory in mind that I want to buy. I have a 2 piece entertainment stand that is just 8 open squares to fit storage cubes and what not. Simple, plywood, paint. I want to buy a dado blade, so if I can price this project to make me about $120 in profit I will be happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshC1501 Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Mel, I a a little late to this but anyway. I have a lot of experience with this pricing thing. I would encourage you to take a look at value based pricing, just do a google search. It has been mentioned here several times, but as the concepts that go into it. You need to setup your marketing and "look" around something you perceive people will value. In your case it is probably fine hand tool made craftsmanship. It can be accomplished in other ways as well, but you get the idea. Whatever you do don't underprice yourself from the start. You can always lower if you find you are just to high. If you google "value based pricing" you will come up with a ton of reading material. Thats my two cents. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted October 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Excellent! Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 FWIW Mel, my teak cabinet set went for $3200. Materials were about a grand. Took me 2 full time in the shop weeks to complete them. So I made a grand a week on them. Not bad, but I honestly make more as a full time carpenter. Maybe if I was faster and my shop was better setup for efficiency, I would have came in closer at a weeks time, but Im not there yet on the time factor, not even close. What was your cost in materials for this table, and how long did it take from start to finish? Before you kill yourself trying to price, look at the basics first. Cover all your materials, overhead, and you need to pay your bills and live right? you're in a highly skilled trade, so throw yourself something extra for being awesome 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted October 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 I'm not exactly sure how much the wood cost for that one table. I would guess around $100. I started the build on here, so however long that was A day here and there, but nothing solid. I know for sure I could knock one out in a day or so, minus finishing, which would add a few days due to drying time. The only hiccup I encountered was I had to cut the top in half after glue up because I wasn't paying attention, and glued the wrong side together. With that timeline, I could make atleast a dozen tables a month easily working at a comfortable full time rate. At $600 each, that would be really nice. I now have a full time job, that pays very well. I could still make a couple a week with no problems. The extra would be nice for more tools. I like tools. Daddy needs an infill smoother! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 I have to stop looking at tools to buy, and I need to stop getting jobs in the shop, because I need to finish my garage before the cold weather comes in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted October 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 I love tools.I made the best out of my garage for now. My wife and I are looking at building a home within the next year or two, depending on her internship. Then I'll have a killer shop with room for, you guessed it! More tools In all honesty, it's so darn cold in my shop in the winter it's hard to stay outside long enough to get stuff done. I can't wait to move. I my invest in a better heater for the time being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted October 8, 2013 Report Share Posted October 8, 2013 i'm also waiting for the "killer shop" haha. I want more room, some of my projects are rather large and it it ridiculous that I have to move my machines to one side of the garage everytime I need to do an assembly or cut a sheet. RIDICULOUS! But for now, I want to control the climate I am in to protect my tools, my lumber, and work comfortably. It will cost me though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pghmyn Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Mel, and anyone else that wants to chime in on this: I am going to be making a end table for between a recliner and a wall for my grandma as a surprise. I am going to be closely following Mel's design, with a couple minor changes. I am going to elongate it to the request of my aunt, and adding a small drawer for a remote, glasses, etc. The wood is Red Oak, which happens to be my grandpa's. He bought it a long time ago and never got around to using it before he went. Major question is how to orient the grain on the top? Wall ____________ | | | | Front | | Recliner Say that is the top, which way would you orient the grain? End grain in the front, or end grain on the side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted October 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Sam, I would always have the end grain on the sides of the piece. This works in your favor as well. You will have less gluing for the top. Let's say your top is 18"x24"... And you have 10"wide boards. You would have two glue joints on the top if you had the end grain in the front. And only one glue joint if you have the end grain on the sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Sam will you be documenting the build in this forum? Would love to see it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 end grain on side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Sam, unless there is some really unique reason to do otherwise, you can pretty much make it a general rule that the grain will run with the longest orientation of a panel. Otherwise it looks goofy. One exception would be if it would cause wood movement issues...but in the case of a table top where it doesn't matter, I would personally never run the grain in the short orientation, and I would never allow the end grain to be exposed in the front of the table...as long as it can be avoided. Speaking of grain, does anyone else see a problem with this chair? I missed it at first glance... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pghmyn Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Sam, I would always have the end grain on the sides of the piece. This works in your favor as well. You will have less gluing for the top. Let's say your top is 18"x24"... And you have 10"wide boards. You would have two glue joints on the top if you had the end grain in the front. And only one glue joint if you have the end grain on the sides. The side that I marked as "Front" will be be the side with the drawer. If that changes anything. Sam will you be documenting the build in this forum? Would love to see it I plan on it, although my journalistic approach to things have never panned out. I always forget to stop and take a picture as I'm going end grain on side. You suggest that it should be visible from the recliner and not the front? Just clarifying. Sam, unless there is some really unique reason to do otherwise, you can pretty much make it a general rule that the grain will run with the longest orientation of a panel. Otherwise it looks goofy. One exception would be if it would cause wood movement issues...but in the case of a table top where it doesn't matter, I would personally never run the grain in the short orientation, and I would never allow the end grain to be exposed in the front of the table...as long as it can be avoided. Speaking of grain, does anyone else see a problem with this chair? I missed it at first glance... If I run the grain the long way, the end grain will be visible from the front. But I agree with you that it will look goofy the other way around. Like I said in reply to Mel, there will be a drawer that opens on the side labeled "front" - if that changes anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 If I run the grain the long way, the end grain will be visible from the front. But I agree with you that it will look goofy the other way around. Like I said in reply to Mel, there will be a drawer that opens on the side labeled "front" - if that changes anything. Sorry, I missed that detail in the sketch. Given the choice between a less-than-ideal end grain situation and a less-than-ideal grain orientation situation, I'd make the sacrifice on the end grain, regardless of where the drawer is. Nothing looks goofier than grain running the "wrong" direction. I'd build the table the traditional way, even if it is being built for a specific purpose and location right now. Because the reality is, this table won't live next to that recliner forever...one day it will stand somewhere else. As an aside...how much space will there be between the recliner and the table? Because if it allows, I might consider putting the drawer (or two drawers) on the "side," for the same reason mentioned above. Plus it would be really convenient for Grams to just reach over and grab something out of it if it's right there next to her. Food for thought. And a third option...how about a round or oval table with some curved-front drawers? Then all these questions are moot and it'll be a more challenging build for you to develop some new skills. Maybe some laminations or bricking and veneering in your future? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pghmyn Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Sorry, I missed that detail in the sketch. Given the choice between a less-than-ideal end grain situation and a less-than-ideal grain orientation situation, I'd make the sacrifice on the end grain. Nothing looks goofier than grain running the "wrong" direction. I'd build the table the traditional way, even if it is being built for a specific purpose and location right now. Because the reality is, this table won't live next to that recliner forever...one day it will stand somewhere else. It was my fault for not including that tid bit. However, I think I am going to go with running the grain the long way like you recommend. Saves me in glue up, less worry about wood moving, and wont look too bad. I am going to chamfer the edge as Mel did to alleviate the "heaviness" of the top. Maybe this will help aesthetically with the end grain being there. One day it will stand somewhere else, and I will be responsible for answering the question, "why is there a drawer on the side." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted October 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Here's where one of my tables live. Very similar situation. Bad picture, but the point is clear I hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pghmyn Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Quick orthographic projection I did to give a better example of the design I've settled on. Any recommendations I'd love to hear em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie Posted October 9, 2013 Report Share Posted October 9, 2013 Eric, the back legs look like they could shear along the grain with one good plop onto that chair. I would have changed the orientation of my template on the stock so that the grain ran straight along the entire length of that leg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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