estesbubba Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 So I ready to start planning the DC network for my Grizzly cyclone. I have a decent idea of what I want to do but also want to make sure I think and cover everything before installing it. I can get 6" spiral pipe for $1.63/ft locally which seems like a really good price plus they also have gates, fittings, etc. The current layout of my shop is below with the DC in the upper right corner. My main line will run along the top wall with a lateral running to the Table Saw/Jointer bunch and Planer/Drum Sander group. Since it's a one-man hobby shop no problem having only one gate open at a time. I plan on running 6" pipe for main and lateral runs. I'll use two 45's for the lateral instead of one 90. Here are some questions I have: 1. For the drops can I use a 90? 2. For the drops should I use 6" or 4" pipe? 3. I plan on running 4" on the machine side of the wyes with 4" blast gate and flex hose. Any online resources would be appreciated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstroDave Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 Just about to start a thread on this myself so I will be eager to hear the advice given and will avoid the multiple threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 You might go back and take a look at Marc's install. I'm pretty sure he did a free video on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstroDave Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 You inspired me to go see what online resources might be out there... I haven't read through each of these thoroughly yet but will this evening. Here's a few I found... http://www.pennstateind.com/duct_assist.html From the guy who invented the system Marc uses... Bill Pentz... http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/ducting.cfm The system Marc uses... http://www.ductingsystems.com/?gclid=CNfKs9aDhcICFUdp7AodUlkAcw and the link to his video on the topic http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/installing-nordfab-ductwork/ And a few more... http://www.wwgoa.com/d-o-g-simple-approach-for-dust-collection-ducting%EF%BB%BF/ http://www.artofwoodshopdesign.com/dust-collection-system-layout/ http://www.oneida-air.com/static.asp?htmltemplate=static/ductwork_tutorial01.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechwood Chip Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 One of Marc's videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 Mike, I'm no expert at dust collection but I know a lot about pipe. If you can use 2- 45's for the drops vs a 90 you are always better off. The 4" drop should be plenty sufficient, 6" pipe should just be your trunk line (because a 6" drop is HUGE!) and your trunk line should be located as close as possible to your machines. I would try to be within 10' from machine outlet to trunk line. Obviously, less is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estesbubba Posted November 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 My DC port is 8" and I wonder if running 8" main from it to the first lateral would be beneficial over 6"? It will probably be a short run, 5-10', then I would run 6" after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwk5017 Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Mike, What grizzly cyclone do you have? I just picked up a new one off CL 2-3 weeks ago, and I am still in the process of getting it upright(Plans A and B were failures). Mine is the GO441. I am interested in seeing your thoughts, and some of the responses from other guys with systems in place. For what its worth, my current planning is to run 7" spiral off of an 8 to 7 reducer from the machine. I bought a bit of 7" spiral ducting off the guy who had the collector, so I am running 7" to all my tools. Here is where I am kind of stuck. All my tools have 4" ports, so I don't know if I want to somehow jerry-rig 6" ports onto the tools I can--not much to be done with the dewalt 735 port. Bill P. makes it seem like the second you go down to 4", you are immediately limited to X cfm--350-500, whatever the number is. Seems like you are in the same boat with tool port size. Would it be better to run 6" flex hose to the machine, then use a few reducers right at the machine to get it down to 4". It just seems like a waste to run 6-8" ductwork, have a big cyclone, and all the planning JUST to pull 500cfm at the machine. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estesbubba Posted November 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Watching Marc's video on his Nordfab install it looks like he runs 6" into a wye with two 6" coming out of it into a 6" gate, then a 6-4" reducer going into flex hose. Since he said he plans on leaving only one gate open at a time I'm guessing he doesn't have any problems. I think where you really need to plan is when you intend on leaving many gates open, but I could be wrong. I also have the G0441. So what were your plans A & B that failed? I'm about ready to attempt to mount mine to the wall and don't have plan A yet so any tips would be nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Mike, have a look here>> http://www.airhand.com/designing.aspx This site should answer your last question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 One point that Bill P. makes is that for a one man shop where only 1 gate is going to be open at a time, there is no point to reducing duct size as you go down the line. Just run the same size from the collector to the end of the line. He also suggests using 6" drops to the machines & if possible, fitting the machine with a 6" port. Makes sense to me. I'm in the process of laying out a system for my own shop & I want as many CFM as I can possibly get at each machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Unless your going to go butcher your machines and put in big ports its a waste of time and money to go to deep into design and pipe. With a one person one port open at a time shop which is about all these little cyclones can handle anyways just running pvc and calling it good is plenty the gains with a fancy duct system are not going to be realized until you step up to a bigger cyclone. If you have a larger shop with long runs a good design will help but in a garage or similar you won't see much of anything noticeable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwk5017 Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Yes, but I suppose I still question the use of 6". I took the 30 seconds to go to his site and check out the numbers "It takes one 6" port to support the minimum 800 CFM required for larger stationary small shop tools and a 7" port to keep from strangling the 1000 CFM required for good fine dust collection. What I do with my cyclone design is use a larger blower with increased pressure to pull a full 1000 CFM through a 6" duct" Obviously, the bigger the pipe, the less resistance you have to overcome to move the air we want to move. The clearvue has a 16" impeller, I believe. That is .5" larger than our impeller--I think the 3hp vs 5hp isn't part of the argument, they are "equal". I think our machines move like 1684-1700 cfm, so just a smidge less than the clearvue. It looks like 6" would be fine for you, but I might consider bumping up to slightly larger duct for as long as you can. Now, this is easy for me to say, because I bought the 7" off of the guy for a few bucks, and im looking at 2 drops for my table saw/jointer, and my planer/future drum sander. It might be a lot more money for you to bump up to 7" spiral. Locally, 7" was difficult to get from my spiral duct manufacturer, because people use 6" and they use 8", 7" is a rare bird. I was still able to get the fittings I needed, but 6" is easier to find and cheaper, like 30% cheaper. Plan A was a wooden frame to lift the cyclone body to the exact height I needed(vertically challenged basement), and then I was going to carry the motor/impeller assembly up a ladder and plop it into the cyclone housing. Cyclone body went up easily, but then I had a "duh!" moment and didn't take into account the height of the impeller having to clear the assembly before it sat inside. Chalked that one up to being an idiot. Plan B was same wooden frame, popped the motor in horizontally, and went to lift it up into place. The motor is fitting in between two joists, and I had the cyclone 80% vertical when the top 1/2" of the motor hit cross bracing in between the joists(50s home). Unbelievable. The cross bracing isn't in between ever joist, and if it was spaced 6" further in towards the center of the house, I wouldn't have caught it with the motor mid-arc. I then held the 350lb monster in that position for a minute while my girlfriend scrambled to move my 4x8 assembly table behind me. I gently let her down and its currently residing on that table. It looks like a failed space mission, where the space shuttle/rocket failed to launch and it fell sideways off the launch pad. It's sad. Plan C will be a hydraulic cart I bought off CL for $40. My brother will be home this weekend on Thanksgiving break from college. We are going to lift it upright onto the cart and jack it into place on to the bracket I have bolted into my basement wall. God, I hope this goes smoothly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 I think the 3hp vs 5hp isn't part of the argument, they are "equal". No the impeller is the load a 5hp can handle more load without slowing the motor. On the other hand 5hp is micro sized when it comes to cyclones. Hobby cyclones are about convenience not performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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