Tpt life Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 I cannot decide if this violates my ethical principle or if it is the cost of doing modern business. This forum will get pulled up with a Google search. I am sure they do not want their name added to the thread title. Someone with clearer thinking slap me down if that is dirty posturing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Wait, your wheels had damage, but weren't replaced? I'm sure that is causing you your problems! I would ask for your money back, or at least a replacement. Pat, if you read post #97 the response from laguna is there. They say the damages are only "cosmetic". Thats why wheels were never replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 If you ordered a brand new car, and it arrived with "only cosmetic" damage, would you keep it if they gave you some nice rims? Me neither. That saw was used. By whom and for what I have no idea. But I'm convinced it was, and I can't fathom how Laguna would send you a saw in that condition when you ordered a brand new one. I've never heard of such gross incompetence from a company with such a solid reputation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwalter5110 Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Pat, if you read post #97 the response from laguna is there. They say the damages are only "cosmetic". Thats why wheels were never replaced. Well, from what I can see in the pictures, those wheels have more than cosmetic damage. I am sure they are bent, and IF they are bent, I doubt you will get this saw running properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 If you ordered a brand new car, and it arrived with "only cosmetic" damage, would you keep it if they gave you some nice rims? Me neither. That saw was used. By whom and for what I have no idea. But I'm convinced it was, and I can't fathom how Laguna would send you a saw in that condition when you ordered a brand new one. I've never heard of such gross incompetence from a company with such a solid reputation. I hope that with the whole picture, you can now see why i am not a fan and would really like to rid my shop of that machine. Its causing me grief and the wife is getting sick of hearing about it. She said, told you to get the powermatic. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 If you ordered a brand new car, and it arrived with "only cosmetic" damage, would you keep it if they gave you some nice rims? Me neither. That saw was used. By whom and for what I have no idea. But I'm convinced it was, and I can't fathom how Laguna would send you a saw in that condition when you ordered a brand new one. I've never heard of such gross incompetence from a company with such a solid reputation. And no i wouldn't accept a car like this. When i spoke of this people told me, its just a tool it will get scratched up anyways. I didnt want to get into all of this on this thread. I only wanted to sort out the wobble......guess one thing led to another. Would you guys go to Laguna for a refund or the dealer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 I'd contact the same person whose email you posted here. Send him a link to the upper wheel video and explain your issue. If he asks about the blade, tell him the dealer sent it to you specifically for this saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodenskye Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Since your dealer already knows the back story on this, I would call them and request that they send someone out to fix the issues you are now having. If they won't, then tell him to get a laguna technician out to fix. If he is unwilling to help, tell him to come pick up the saw and refund the money. After all he is the one that took your money for the initial purchase, I am sure he wouldn't want to loose a good customer. Probably having to eat the return/refund would hurt him more than laguna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janello Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 I would definately go to the dealer. Let him hash it out with laguna. Tell him you want your money back and you will get the saw, fancy fence and all the other broken parts to him. He can ship it back and deal with it. If he doesn't do it, then call laguna and tell them a dealer sold you a saw that looks like it got hit by a truck and wont return it. Ask if thats the kind of dealers they want representing them. This should really be cut and dry, you paid for a new saw, you agreed to a deal, they sent more damaged goods. Game over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 I'd contact the same person whose email you posted here. Send him a link to the upper wheel video and explain your issue. If he asks about the blade, tell him the dealer sent it to you specifically for this saw. I emailed Lagunas director of sales for canada earleir as per your advice. I explained that i can not keep this saw in this condition and would not accept fixing it myself due to the way it arrived and obviously the damages were not only cosmetic. I said i would keep the saw if they sent someone to repair all damaged parts and got it running the way it should have in the get go. Here is his response; " Hi Shane, Before making any decision on a Sunday evening at 10PM, can you just call Laguna Tools tomorrow and see what the tech department have to say? If you ever decide to get rid of the bandsaw, you need to speak with Elite Tools, because you bought it from them. Then i responded; " Never expected you to respond on a "sunday night at 10pm" Elite told me to deal with you since the beginning and so did you thats why i sent you the email directly figuring you could take care of it. I got the message loud and clear, i wont bother you again. I will call elite tomorrow to figure out how to get this saw back to them. Sorry to bother you again, His response 3 mins later; " I'm sorry about the confusion. If you need technical help with your bandsaw or file a support call, it's with me and/or Laguna Tools tech department. If you want to send the bandsaw back, you need to speak to Elite Tools because you bought it from them, and only them can give you your money back. I hope this clarifies the situation. If I reply on Sunday night is because I care for my customers, and I stand 100% behind the products of this company 24/7/365" I am kinda all done with this now. Going to call elite tools tomorrow to come and get this saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 (edited) Every bit of this correspondence should be sent to Laguna's US office. There is no way that this can be considered just cosmetic damage. Those wheels look like they could have taken a side impact at some point. <you're fired>director of sales in Canada</you're fired> You were sent a used damaged machine, plain and simple. Edited March 16, 2015 by SlingBlade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Well, at least now you know for sure that you may still be able to return the saw and get your money back (or a replacement saw), because he didn't close that door at all. GL with the dealer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Have any of you guys dealt with returning a large item like this? Should it be up to me to pay the shipping back? I would think they should cover the shipping due to sending me a damaged saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Have any of you guys dealt with returning a large item like this? Should it be up to me to pay the shipping back? I would think they should cover the shipping due to sending me a damaged saw. I would not pay one thin dime. This is their screw up, they pay for shipping. By the way, I have a Laguna BS on order and I'm expecting good things. I think your situation is an exception and not a rule... I just don't want anyone to assume that I'm jumping on the "Bash Laguna" bandwagon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 I would not pay one thin dime. This is their screw up, they pay for shipping. By the way, I have a Laguna BS on order and I'm expecting good things. I think your situation is an exception and not a rule... I just don't want anyone to assume that I'm jumping on the "Bash Laguna" bandwagon. I will see what they say in the morning. I spoke with visa and i have a 90 day insurance with them and basically i just need to send it back and they have 90 days from purchase date to refund me. If they dont im assuming visa goes after them. Not totally clear on the whole process i need to call the specific insurance tomorrow. I hope it doesn't come to that. They are a reputable dealer so i think i will be fine. With the way things have panned out i guess im expecting the worse. Good luck with your new saw. Im sure if it arrives in good shape it will be great. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 So i called the store this morning and told him about my interactions with laguna ( see post #110) and the problems with this saw from the get go. I explained that at this point i want them to take the saw back and provide me with a full refund. He didn't seem surprised and said they have been having issues with Laguna. He asked that i send him all photos (post #91) and the videos (post #58) The store emailed me back within 5mins of sending all the info they asked for. They are working on it and will let me know. Hopefully this isnt a big drama and they just agree to pick up the saw and refund me.....fingers crossed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Unfortunately this whole thing was handled poorly by both sides, the buy and the seller. Getting your money back is the responsibility of the reseller, fixing the saw is the responsibility of the manufacturer. If anything you learned a little about bandsaws in general. To me it seems you just took a bribe to keep a saw with issues. Probably not the best decision. Laguna is known for this sort of thing with their Asian imported equipment. That being said I would not be afraid to adjust the machine. Most every bandsaw will need a slight toe adjustment. With whatever saw you end up with after this is all over I would still learn to make the needed adjustments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Unfortunately this whole thing was handled poorly by both sides, the buy and the seller. Getting your money back is the responsibility of the reseller, fixing the saw is the responsibility of the manufacturer. If anything you learned a little about bandsaws in general. To me it seems you just took a bribe to keep a saw with issues. Probably not the best decision. Laguna is known for this sort of thing with their Asian imported equipment. That being said I would not be afraid to adjust the machine. Most every bandsaw will need a slight toe adjustment. With whatever saw you end up with after this is all over I would still learn to make the needed adjustments. I disagree with you that i handled it poorly. The "bribe" as you put it, was taken because they told me and i believed them that there would be no issues due to the cosmetic damages. Fast forward 2 weeks. I get power in my shop hook up the saw and am having problems. I emailed them immediately informing them. There is not alot i would change in the way i handled it. Buying another laguna product is something i can change in the future though. You are right, i do learn to make some adjustments such as toe. Hopefully if i get a refund and get an actual new machine this time toe adjustment wont be much of an issue for a while anyways.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 I sort of wish there was post tagging in these forums. There is some great stuff in your posts PB that could well go under a setup thread for guys who don't have wobble. This has been eye opening and let's me know that the bad experiences I have had with shop owned bandsaws has been poor setup all around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 I disagree with you that i handled it poorly. The "bribe" as you put it, was taken because they told me and i believed them that there would be no issues due to the cosmetic damages. Fast forward 2 weeks. I get power in my shop hook up the saw and am having problems. I emailed them immediately informing them. There is not alot i would change in the way i handled it. Buying another laguna product is something i can change in the future though. You are right, i do learn to make some adjustments such as toe. Hopefully if i get a refund and get an actual new machine this time toe adjustment wont be much of an issue for a while anyways.... Laguna knows darn good and well that a motor that has been dropped is not cosmetic damage. It take a good drop to bend the capacitor cover like that. Any motor that has been dropped stands a good chance of having cracked magnets or broken epoxy. Bad casting on a saw top or dent whichever that may be leads to possibility of cracking in the future, that is not cosmetic. They should have sent you a motor and new top. I can't tell in the picks but the rep should have asked if it was not visible wether or not the damage to the center of the wheel extended all the way across the bearing race as we'll and the wheel. If it does he should have sent you an entire new machine. The more you play with these machines you will learn how they operate. IMO you were bribed and they played on lack of knowlege. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 ==> I disagree with you that i handled it poorly Let’s soften the ‘poorly’ to ‘inexperienced’… You took delivery of a saw with no external signs of damage.… You unpacked the saw and documented the damage… No problem, everyone gets some shipping damage when setting-up a shop... But two things here -- some of the damage really isn't cosmetic and some of the ‘shipping damage’ screams, “Used Saw!”… That’s where more experience would have been helpful… Had you posted those photos on day one, you would have gotten the clear message, “Sent it back now!”… Unfortunately, it’s now a couple months later and some of the parts have been replaced, etc… That does change things a bit… I still believe that if you send those photos to Laguna California, they will make it right --- this is a clear screw-up on someone’s part and, while Laguna can be kind of screwy at times, I don’t think they want their name on something like this – it’s a damaged used saw being sold for new… That’s not a great Customer Satisfaction story… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 Laguna knows darn good and well that a motor that has been dropped is not cosmetic damage. It take a good drop to bend the capacitor cover like that. Any motor that has been dropped stands a good chance of having cracked magnets or broken epoxy. Bad casting on a saw top or dent whichever that may be leads to possibility of cracking in the future, that is not cosmetic. They should have sent you a motor and new top. I can't tell in the picks but the rep should have asked if it was not visible wether or not the damage to the center of the wheel extended all the way across the bearing race as we'll and the wheel. If it does he should have sent you an entire new machine. The more you play with these machines you will learn how they operate. IMO you were bribed and they played on lack of knowlege. Ya definitely was ignorance on my part. I actually didnt think that there would be a possibility that the motor would be damaged. Kinda took them for their word figuring they knew their saw and wouldnt want me to be stuck with a screwed up machine. One born every minute i guess...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 ==> I disagree with you that i handled it poorly Let’s soften the ‘poorly’ to ‘inexperienced’… You took delivery of a saw with no external signs of damage.… You unpacked the saw and documented the damage… No problem, everyone gets some shipping damage when setting-up a shop... But two things here -- some of the damage really isn't cosmetic and some of the ‘shipping damage’ screams, “Used Saw!”… That’s where more experience would have been helpful… Had you posted those photos on day one, you would have gotten the clear message, “Sent it back now!”… Unfortunately, it’s now a couple months later and some of the parts have been replaced, etc… That does change things a bit… I still believe that if you send those photos to Laguna California, they will make it right --- this is a clear screw-up on someone’s part and, while Laguna can be kind of screwy at times, I don’t think they want their name on something like this – it’s a damaged used saw being sold for new… That’s not a great Customer Satisfaction story… Very true hhh. It has only been 4 weeks. I received the saw on feb 13. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted March 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 ==> I disagree with you that i handled it poorly Let’s soften the ‘poorly’ to ‘inexperienced’… You took delivery of a saw with no external signs of damage.… You unpacked the saw and documented the damage… No problem, everyone gets some shipping damage when setting-up a shop... But two things here -- some of the damage really isn't cosmetic and some of the ‘shipping damage’ screams, “Used Saw!”… That’s where more experience would have been helpful… Had you posted those photos on day one, you would have gotten the clear message, “Sent it back now!”… Unfortunately, it’s now a couple months later and some of the parts have been replaced, etc… That does change things a bit… I still believe that if you send those photos to Laguna California, they will make it right --- this is a clear screw-up on someone’s part and, while Laguna can be kind of screwy at times, I don’t think they want their name on something like this – it’s a damaged used saw being sold for new… That’s not a great Customer Satisfaction story… I actually did mention it somewhat in the thread "setting up shop" posted in " the shop". Post #51. When i posted that i was assembling it and saw the table. At that point i didnt realise the motor and wheels were banged up also. Posting the pictures redundantly in this thread wasnt my original intent, it was merely to get help with the wobble. One thing led to another, one question led to another and now we are here..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trip Posted March 16, 2015 Report Share Posted March 16, 2015 ==>didnt think that there would be a possibility that the motor would be damaged That’s where experience comes-in… Leeson uses a decent gauge of sheet metal for external coverings… Anything that would dent it that badly wouldn’t be good for the internals… The motor could be just fine, but taking that sort of whack would not be good for its long-term health – of course, if they gave you a 10-year motor guarantee… I may have missed your reponse to an early question, but did you receive the saw directly from Laguna California, directly from Laguna Canada or from the retailer? It's the 'used' component to all this that's more disturbing... I could be wrong, but I'd say it's 90+% that the saw is used -- maybe an in-house demo unit, maybe a show model or maybe---gulp---a user-return... As someone mentioned above, there was a time when Laguna played fast and loose (the big issue was bait-and-switch, but shipping floor models was also reported), but I thought that period was behind them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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