Lee Bussy Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 It's sort of hard to formulate this question ... it "seems like" for saws, the care and feeding (sharpening) is more important than anything else. That being the case does it matter f I go buy a new Irwin panel saw or a nice vintage one, or a God-knows-how-much heirloom saw? It seems like I should know this but I've just never seen anyone talk about the contemporary "value priced" saws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Wright Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 Get an old saw! you can pick them up at garage sales, Antique stores, Resale shops and other such places for less then $5 I have over 20 saws the newest one is 60-70 years old I have never paid over $8 and most are between $1 and $5 I have even gotten a few for $.50 or free. give them care and learn to sharpen them and they will last you for years to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bussy Posted January 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 3 minutes ago, James Wright said: Get an old saw! you can pick them up at garage sales, Antique stores, Resale shops and other such places for less then $5 I have over 20 saws the newest one is 60-70 years old I have never paid over $8 and most are between $1 and $5 I have even gotten a few for $.50 or free. give them care and learn to sharpen them and they will last you for years to come. It just "feels like" I have another whole thing to learn to figure out which saw to buy ... or does it matter? I guess that's the basis of the thread in a nutshell. Does *any* saw provide value once cleaned/tuned/sharpened? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim DaddyO Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 I have a Stanley "Sharp tooth" saw that works well. It is an induction hardened throw away saw, but it functions well. I also have 4 older saws, 2 are Disston, the other 2 are "Waranteed Superior" that I re filed to a rip pattern. I bought them all at a yard sale for $2. I am learning to sharpen on those and am having some success so far, yet far from perfect. I recommend the same course as you have something to use while you learn sharpening. One more thing to remember is that a poorly sharpened saw will still cut better than a dull one. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Wright Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 THe best way to learn is to buy saws and learn. at that cheap of a price it is not that expensive when you make a bad choice. soon you know what a good saw looks like. A few keys I look for 1. If you can see the logo on the plate buy it! 2. if the grip is ornate and feels good buy it. 3. If it is Warranted superior think about it. those are seconds but often great saws get a cross cut and a rip cut in a verity of langths and PPI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bussy Posted January 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 2 minutes ago, Jim DaddyO said: I have a Stanley "Sharp tooth" saw that works well. It is an induction hardened throw away saw, but it functions well. I also have 4 older saws, 2 are Disston, the other 2 are "Waranteed Superior" that I re filed to a rip pattern. I bought them all at a yard sale for $2. I am learning to sharpen on those and am having some success so far, yet far from perfect. I recommend the same course as you have something to use while you learn sharpening. One more thing to remember is that a poorly sharpened saw will still cut better than a dull one. I've yet to see saws at a yard sale. I guess I'm not looking enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Wright Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 The general yard sale not so much but the estate sales have them all the time! almost every other one has a basement or garage with old woodworking tools where I am at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bussy Posted January 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 2 minutes ago, James Wright said: The general yard sale not so much but the estate sales have them all the time! almost every other one has a basement or garage with old woodworking tools where I am at. I guess I'l have to keep an eye out for those. Not really seen many but then again I've not been looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Wright Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 There are four or five companies in my area that specialize in estate sales and I get on their mailing list and most the time I can see pictures of what is there before I show up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bussy Posted January 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 1 hour ago, James Wright said: There are four or five companies in my area that specialize in estate sales and I get on their mailing list and most the time I can see pictures of what is there before I show up I found such a website here too ... so now I have that going. Never been to an estate sale. Is it just a garage sale-ish thing? I assume there are prices on things? And haggling is expected? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Wright Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 Sweet. I also use a garage sale map app to find them. This time of year up north they are the only sales. Estate sales come in all sorts of varieties but most are just like a garage sale except it is throughout the entire house and everything you would find in an old house is for sale I love going to the places where someone has been living there for 40 or 50 years. Most the time everything is marked and usually on the second day everything is discounted. A few that I have been to are in an auction format but even then usually the hand tools are in a back corner with prices as marked. The first one or two you go to will feel odd walking through a person's house with all of their stuff laid out. But that feeling soon passes and you learn to enjoy them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wilkins Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 I had more knowledgeable folks help me find a pair of Disston D8's on the big auction site. think saws have gone up in the last few years and I noticed in Schwarz' latest book that he recommends the sharp tooth type new saws. The biggest thing you give away with those is a comfortable handle. Graham Haydon uses one in his videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bussy Posted January 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 18 minutes ago, Tony Wilkins said: I had more knowledgeable folks help me find a pair of Disston D8's on the big auction site. Well if someone feels like helping, I'm all ears. I looked there and there's a plethora of saws, no idea which one would be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmaichel Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 If you are just looking to learn how to use a saw for hand tool woodworking a Sharp Tooth saw from one of the big box stores is a great place to start. They are about $20 and work pretty well for both ripping and crosscutting ( I used on for a while and still do from time to time. I also have a couple nice vintage full size hand saws that do not see a lot of use. One is a NOS, and another is a Disston that needs some work. The reason they don't see much use is because I prefer a smaller panel saw, something closer to 20" or 22", they just feel more comfortable. Like James said, there are plenty of cheap saws out there but sometimes you get what you pay for. If you are interested in restoring saws and learning to sharpen, then go out to estate sales and find some or buy one in better condition off ebay. If you just want to learn how to use handsaws, then go to HD or Lowes, buy a $20 Stanley Sharp Tooth saw, some dimensional pine and build a saw bench! This is what I would do. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bussy Posted January 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 3 minutes ago, jmaichel said: If you are just looking to learn how to use a saw for hand tool woodworking a Sharp Tooth saw from one of the big box stores is a great place to start. They are about $20 and work pretty well for both ripping and crosscutting ( I used on for a while and still do from time to time. I also have a couple nice vintage full size hand saws that do not see a lot of use. One is a NOS, and another is a Disston that needs some work. The reason they don't see much use is because I prefer a smaller panel saw, something closer to 20" or 22", they just feel more comfortable. Like James said, there are plenty of cheap saws out there but sometimes you get what you pay for. If you are interested in restoring saws and learning to sharpen, then go out to estate sales and find some or buy one in better condition off ebay. If you just want to learn how to use handsaws, then go to HD or Lowes, buy a $20 Stanley Sharp Tooth saw, some dimensional pine and build a saw bench! This is what I would do. That's it exactly. So those are combo saws? I was trying to figure that out from the TPI but I don't think that's the only indicator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcK Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 Hardpoint panel saws generally are cross cut only and can't be sharpened. If you buy vintage you can get both rip and cross cut. You can also buy new "heirloom" saws as you have eluded (they don't have to be expensive) and they too can be sharpened. The latest hardpoints cut on forward and reverse strokes. For combo saws I think you may be referring to a saw which has a hacksaw blade and a bow saw blade. They both fit on the same frame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bussy Posted January 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 2 minutes ago, TerryMcK said: Hardpoint panel saws generally are cross cut only and can't be sharpened. If you buy vintage you can get both rip and cross cut. You can also buy new "heirloom" saws as you have eluded (they don't have to be expensive) and they too can be sharpened. The latest hardpoints cut on forward and reverse strokes. Are Hardpoints the Irwin line in the UK? I assume they can't be sharpened because of that wild tooth pattern? 4 minutes ago, TerryMcK said: For combo saws I think you may be referring to a saw which has a hacksaw blade and a bow saw blade. They both fit on the same frame. No, I meant a panel saw that was sort of a jack of all trades. I've never considered a bow saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryMcK Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 Yes Irwins are one of many hard points available in the UK. You can't sharpen them because the steel is induction hardened just at the points. This gives brittleness and that's why they can break off easily. Also the tips are harder than mill files so you will have trouble filing them. A non hardpoint is hardened through the entire plate but it is tempered so it is not quite as hard. Then normal mill files can reshape the teeth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bussy Posted January 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 Oh! I get ya. Hard point = not tempered. I thought it was a brand name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmaichel Posted January 26, 2016 Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 If you are using your hard point saw on softer woods like pine, poplar, and even soft maple, ripping is not an issue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wilkins Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 I ended up getting a couple of Wenzloff after the two Disstons. As pretty as the Wenzloffs are, in use I prefer the Disstons. I wonder if anybody has input on the lie Nielsen panel saws - they are the least expensive of the 'heirloom'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 Search HHH posts. He has repeatedly stated these saws are more about heft and fit in the hand. In this regard, brand is not of consequence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Bussy Posted January 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 1 hour ago, C Shaffer said: Search HHH posts. He has repeatedly stated these saws are more about heft and fit in the hand. In this regard, brand is not of consequence. Exactly what I wanted to know (one way or the other). Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmaichel Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 2 hours ago, Tony Wilkins said: I ended up getting a couple of Wenzloff after the two Disstons. As pretty as the Wenzloffs are, in use I prefer the Disstons. I wonder if anybody has input on the lie Nielsen panel saws - they are the least expensive of the 'heirloom'. Just bought two LN's but have not had time to put them to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Wright Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 LN's are fantastic you will not go wrong with them. But if I am going new I go Bad Ax http://www.badaxetoolworks.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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