New Saws Crap?


Lee Bussy

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Cheap vs boutique can be interesting with something like a saw, too, since the materials in the cheap ones aren't necessarily poor, just that the manufacturing is tuned for scale more than quality.  My favorite crosscut backsaw started life as my grandpa's cheapo Sears miter box saw.  It had a terrible plastic handle and didn't work so well.  I read how to sharpen it, got some files and a saw set, and bought some saw nuts and made a classic tote for it out of some cherry and a template from Blackburns.  With a better handle and the teeth set up well it is great.  As good as a BaT?  Not sure... the only 'premium' handsaws I have are a Veritas and a Pax.  It is at least on par with those, and that's even despite having a light weight steel back compared to the fancy polymer and heavy brass of the others. 

So while you wouldn't buy a $15k table because you'd probably rather make one, you can also make a $250 saw with the right materials and application.  Others, in each case, would rather buy.

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Unless your skill can back up the high quality saw stick with something cheaper. A great saw will not make a cut look that much better when handled by someone that is just learning. but someone with years of skill can use a High Quality saw to do things that can not be achieved from a cheap saw, but that being said some times those improvements are so slight and only visible to the person using the tool such as the warm feeling of THAT PERFECT GRIP!

In the end buy the saw that matches your skill.

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New owner of a Bad Axe 14" Sash Saw... wow!  I totally understand where the OP is coming from, however.  I think of tools a lot like guitars or other instruments.  You can certainly learn on a cheap model, and play something incredibly beautiful, but you may find yourself fighting the instrument (or the saw) more than you even realize.     There are plenty of hit songs recorded with cheap guitars, and you will probably never know the difference as the listener... but the players certainly do. I think many people are turned off of guitar (or hand tools) because they are not setup properly from the factory and the owner doesn't know enough yet to even realize there is a problem.  Not that you need a $5000 guitar to learn on, that is silly... but it would certainly not hurt the learning process, and would potentially remove some obstacles such as poor playability and bad intonation.

I chose my Bad Axe for the following reasons and don't regret it one bit:  

  • Quality of Materials / Craftsmanship
  • Personalized to suit my wants/needs - Mark asks what you need in a saw and what materials you are cutting most often
  • hybrid filing suits my rip and crosscut needs with one saw - my "jack" saw
  • They will re-sharpen for a very reasonable cost
  • lifetime investment
  • Fought with a few cheaper saws before this and vowed to never struggle like that again!

All that said, I was very close to purchasing the Lie-Nielsen set, or even the Veritas set (probably one of the best values out there)... but really wanted to make the jump.  I would have been making great cuts either way, and I think any performance improvement of the bad-axe is probably marginal... but sometimes that extra 10% or so makes all the difference in the world as you further develop your technique.  Most importantly, it feels really, really good in my hands and I love using the Bad Axe. 

 

 

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15k tables and 5k guitars are really not relevant to this conversation. In reality we are talking about saws that cost between $200-$300 (premium) vs saws for $20 -$100 if buying big box or vintage(not professionally restored).  Most of us spend that much on cell phone bills if you have a family.

my point is, a $20 hard point saw will get you sawing! You will never regret buying a premium saw from LN or BAt or any other boutique manufacture and will last you a lifetime. If you like the idea of learning to sharpen and restore saws that get a few cheap vintage saws. I personally dislike any sort of tool restoration and will just send my saws back to the manufacture for resharpening. 

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16 hours ago, collinp2 said:

New owner of a Bad Axe 14" Sash Saw... wow!  I totally understand where the OP is coming from, however.  I think of tools a lot like guitars or other instruments.  You can certainly learn on a cheap model, and play something incredibly beautiful, but you may find yourself fighting the instrument (or the saw) more than you even realize.     There are plenty of hit songs recorded with cheap guitars, and you will probably never know the difference as the listener... but the players certainly do. I think many people are turned off of guitar (or hand tools) because they are not setup properly from the factory and the owner doesn't know enough yet to even realize there is a problem.  Not that you need a $5000 guitar to learn on, that is silly... but it would certainly not hurt the learning process, and would potentially remove some obstacles such as poor playability and bad intonation.

I chose my Bad Axe for the following reasons and don't regret it one bit:  

  • Quality of Materials / Craftsmanship
  • Personalized to suit my wants/needs - Mark asks what you need in a saw and what materials you are cutting most often
  • hybrid filing suits my rip and crosscut needs with one saw - my "jack" saw
  • They will re-sharpen for a very reasonable cost
  • lifetime investment
  • Fought with a few cheaper saws before this and vowed to never struggle like that again!

All that said, I was very close to purchasing the Lie-Nielsen set, or even the Veritas set (probably one of the best values out there)... but really wanted to make the jump.  I would have been making great cuts either way, and I think any performance improvement of the bad-axe is probably marginal... but sometimes that extra 10% or so makes all the difference in the world as you further develop your technique.  Most importantly, it feels really, really good in my hands and I love using the Bad Axe. 

 

 

As one who plays a little guitar the analogy works better if the point is one of quality rather than price.  In classical guitars, for instance, a Yamaha can sound great.  It's a "good" guitar.  But the "fit" may not be for everyone.  Fingerboard width & curve, action, and neck shape all make for a comfortable feel.  The same goes for any thing else -- a camera or a saw.

After the fit is resolved then comes the sound.  Last summer I sat down with a set of guitars. First was a Yamaha.  Nice tone but a slight muffling to it. It's a Yamaha characteristic. Then I picked up a Gibson classical from the late 60s.  Beautiful & clear but maybe just a bit brilliant.  After that came a Cordoba, iirc. Nice and rich.  But the final unit was a Ramierez.  It was enough to make me want to sell my car to get it. Richer still, perfect action, perfect fit to the hand. 

All craftsmen know these small (and sometimes big) quality differences.  These things come by way of nuance.  The little bit better metal, grip style & shape, etc. 

But there's a point of diminishing returns as well.  I like the 90% point (for beginning any effort).  A quality tool, never a cheap one.  Then, if I get really good at something, maybe move to that 95% point. Only a few people ever really accomplish such precision that the 98%+ point is reached. Those people have earned their tools through skill, time, and commitment.

 

 

 

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