Jointer Questions/Recommendations

[Pwk5017]

I own a 7 year old version of this machine

http://www.grizzly.com/products/The-Ultimate-12-Jointer/G9860

So far, it is stellar--Especially for the used price I paid. To me, that is the determining factor in cutterhead choice. If you are buying used, good luck finding a used machine with a helical head. If I were buying new, I would probably spring for the helical. I havent owned a helical head jointer, but I do own a 20" PMHH. Frankly,I wouldnt be gaining much from the $1000+ it would cost me to put a byrd head in the jointer. My PM touches both faces, and I have a drum sander to do even more tearout free finish prep. The byrd head will leave super minor tearout in particularly gnarly areas of grain reversal, so it isnt perfect. I would want a byrd cutterhead in my jointer for the convenience of not setting knives and for cost savings. Surface finish would be a distant 3rd or 4th on the list. Todd touched on it recently, but in the long run the carbide insert heads should be much less expensive. I keep in touch with a few small pro shops around the country, and they get 2-4 years out of each edge on their byrds. These are shops that go through a few hundred bdft a week. That would equate to over a decade of peak performance for a guy like me. Compare that to having to own two sets of knives(they arent cheap in the 12-20" range), and then sharpening those knives a few times a year. It all adds up over time. Setting knives is easy peasy after you have done it once or twice.

 

I owned an 8" machine for 6-7 months. Within 5 minutes of owning it, I was pretty crestfallen because the second board i ran over it was 8.5" wide. This lead to me permanently run the machine with no guard. Not a safe practice by any means, but something i constantly did with my 6" machine too. It might just be PA, but i constantly have 8-10" wide boards. A few are close to 12", and I only have a handful that are above 12". I just dont see many non-slab pieces greater than 12" width at the establishments I visit. Everybody's work flow differs, and so does their project interest, but I dont think the 8" is the end all be all that most people make it out to be. They are nice machines--i was proud to own a DJ-20--but i think people see cabinet shop outfits as a gear benchmark. The small cabinet shops Ive been in had a 6-8" machine and nothing bigger. Surprising how many shops only have a 6" machine. I just dont think milling lumber is a top priority for a cabinet shop. The ones I know buy surfaced lumber. This has probably skewed a lot of people's outlook on equipment, because most people think of a cabinet shop as your typical woodworking pro to aspire to, but they work much differently than most hobbyists. Conversely, I know 3 local people that make custom furniture. They all have huge jointers. The smallest the one guy owns is a 12" oliver. The other guys have 16-20" ancient machines, the porters, northfields etc. Something to consider as most of us build furniture and not plywood boxes. 

 

I rambled too much, and I dont think ive given you an answer. I would always, ALWAYS choose capacity over cutterhead. I cant see how that is even a debate. After that, I think its just up to your budget and shop space on what you get. I would prefer an 8" to a 6", but id also prefer a 12" to an 8". You need to draw the line somewhere, and there isnt a rule that you can never upgrade down the line  

[Eric.]

1 hour ago, Pwk5017 said:

Everybody's work flow differs, and so does their project interest, but I dont think the 8" is the end all be all that most people make it out to be.

No, of course not...everyone wants an aircraft carrier.  But the price jump between the 8" and 12" is HUGE, and so is the footprint.  And unless you get lucky and find a good used machine like you did, there just aren't many options for the hobbyist beyond the 8", which is why most of us default to the 8".  It's not the "end all, be all,"...it's the sweet-spot for cost and size.  Pro shops, different story.  Maybe.

[Eric Anderson]

Rex,

I have the 60HH.  I went back and forth on the 60 vs the 82 and decided the 82 was too long for my shop.  Kinda wish I had gone with the 82, but I'm more than happy with the 60.  The table on the 60 is a little over 6' long while the 82 is about 12 inches longer.  The 60 came with a separate base and head.  It took me and 3 neighbors to mount the table to the base (I think it's around 350 lbs or so).  Once on the base (there is a mobile base from powermatic for this jointer) it was dead flat and square with absolutely no adjustment.  I've now had it for a couple of years and it is still as true as the day it came.  I do a face and an edge and my square says perfect 90 degrees every time.  the shelix head is great, and a lot less noisy.  Cuts are perfect every time.  I highly recommend the 60HH, but if you have the space, I would still probably go with the 82HH if I had it to do over for the extra bed lenght.  Also, the 82 is easier to adjust but since it hasn't moved a bit, I may never have to adjust it.  

[chrisphr]

I'd rather have a higher quality machine like a Powermatic without a Shelix than a cheaper machine like a Grizzly or Jet with a Shelix.

...or Jet. I'm not totally to date on WTO, but I think this is the first time I heard you dis on the Jet. Only because I consider your opinion very seriously, you'd avoid the Jet, there is no other choice than the parallelogram pm if you want to avoid machine aggravation? I was planning on purchasing the 8" helical head Jet later this year. What are your thoughts?

[Eric.]

My thoughts are that Jets are only slightly superior to Grizzly in quality, and way overpriced because they have white paint.  I would either go low end and get the Grizzly or high end and get the Powermatic.  I don't like the quality-to-price ratio with Jet.  Used machines, different story.  I think Tom paid like twenty bucks for his Jet table saw and who could blame him.

Full disclosure: I've never owned a Jet machine, just explored them at the stores.

Anecdotal side note...I would gladly trade my PM2800 for a Jet JDP-17

[Pwk5017]

Jet is probably ok, but their jointer line is 30 years behind the times. They make a dovetail ways short bed 8" jointer. Why would you ever buy that machine? 

[chrisphr]

Jet is probably ok, but their jointer line is 30 years behind the times. They make a dovetail ways short bed 8" jointer. Why would you ever buy that machine? 

Mostly because I don't know any better regarding the mechanics of the Jet, I just respected the brand. I was in the dark, and now I have been shown the pa'ath to the li'ight! (add a little southern baptist flair to that last sentence for full intended effect).

[..Kev]

15 minutes ago, Pwk5017 said:

Jet is probably ok, but their jointer line is 30 years behind the times. They make a dovetail ways short bed 8" jointer. Why would you ever buy that machine? 

Great way to ask all those here who currently own one

 

[Pwk5017]

1 minute ago, TIODS said:

Great way to ask all those here who currently own one

 

My friend owns the jet 8" with Byrd head. If it works for you, all the power to you, but isn't it like $1800 new? Didn't mean to offend anyone, but it does have short beds and an inferior bed alignment design. I used it for a 50-75 bdft milling session one day and didnt leave with a positive impression. At the time, it would have been a direct comparison to my Dj-20, because I had just sold the delta and waiting for the grizzly to arrive. Given the choice between the used straight knife delta and the new Byrd jet, I'd prefer the delta. 

[toddclippinger]

On May 13, 2016 at 8:43 AM, Pwk5017 said:

I keep in touch with a few small pro shops around the country, and they get 2-4 years out of each edge on their byrds. These are shops that go through a few hundred bdft a week. That would equate to over a decade of peak performance for a guy like me. Compare that to having to own two sets of knives(they arent cheap in the 12-20" range), and then sharpening those knives a few times a year. It all adds up over time. Setting knives is easy peasy after you have done it once or twice.

 

I find this an interesting duration because it really confirms the life span I have been getting out of my carbide cutters. Some have been in disbelief when I stated how long my cutting edges were lasting. 

Since my time gets split a lot between job sites and the shop, I don't run the same volume consistently over my jointer as the shops you know. So I think the life span I am getting from the carbide cutters is in line with them.

I quit remodel and it has only been in the last year that I have focused strictly on working in the shop but still offering some installs. 

 

[drzaius]

On 5/14/2016 at 8:57 PM, Pwk5017 said:

Jet is probably ok, but their jointer line is 30 years behind the times. They make a dovetail ways short bed 8" jointer. Why would you ever buy that machine? 

Why is a dovetail ways machine terrible? I've got a General Int. 6" with DT ways & it's a great machine. Consistently turns out flat, straight surfaces. The bed is only 54" but if needed, I've made extension tables that handle long lumber. And something that's important to me; it doesn't take up much space in the garage.

[Tom Cancelleri]

I've got a fair bit of Jet stuff. Drill press, 2 Table Saws, 2 Jet Lathes. The quality of the machines is fine. My table saw is built like a tank. I also have a Grizzly G0593 Jointer with DT ways. I have never had any issue with it. I bought it already setup and it's never needed adjustment. I definitely notice a difference in quality between Jet and Grizzly stuff though. 

[Unknown craftsman]

I'm one of the lucky ones.I have a oliver 166bd made in 1960. It's 9 ft long and weighs 1900 #s. I did have a 8 inch with a HH head but the beds were not very coplaner and it fell short for making long tables.So it had to go.

It cost me about 3500 to get it running that included a coat of paint.

It not for everyone but I'm starting to lean more toward older machines.

[drzaius]

57 minutes ago, Aj3 said:

I'm one of the lucky ones.I have a oliver 166bd made in 1960. It's 9 ft long and weighs 1900 #s. I did have a 8 inch with a HH head but the beds were not very coplaner and it fell short for making long tables.So it had to go.

It cost me about 3500 to get it running that included a coat of paint.

It not for everyone but I'm starting to lean more toward older machines.

Love to see a photo of that. I assume it's a 16"?

[Unknown craftsman]

I wish it I had the 16 mine is the 12.Just as other have mentioned I mostly face stuff 4-6 inches wide.I use the front half of the knives for that and the back half for edges.

I spread the work out across the knives for maximum joy.

[Patrick]

I've had the Grizzly GO4900x for a few years now.  My wish list included helical heads, the longest top possible (related to a project at the time) and 8" capacity.  This Grizzly fit my budget.  It was either forgo some desired features or buy Grizzly.

Happy to say it's worked out quite well for me.  Cuts the surfaces dead flat and rarely (1 time) needs adjusting.  

I'll also have to chime in with a Grizzly customer service experience because I think it's relative.  A set screw came loose on the motor arbor. I was trying to finish a project and unwisely didn't immediately investigate the signals the machine was giving me.  Consequently, the belt, pulley and motor arbor were damaged.  This was in the first year of the warranty.  I made one phone call that last maybe 15 minutes and Grizzly replaced the pulley, the belt and the entire motor.  

The point I want to make about their customer service relates to the general perception that Grizzly has a lower level of QC coming out of these Asian factories.  This may very well be the case when compared to the Jets and Powermatics rolling off the lines.  So just take the time to look the machine over when it arrives and throughout the first year; basically do you own QC.  The design between the Grizzly and Powermatic aren't that different...well at least not enough for me to spend the extra money on this particular machine.