mat60 Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 Anyone see the political debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keggers Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 Eric is right. Everything he said is right. Here in Southeast Missouri the lowest moisture content that can be achieved with lumber that is air dried outdoors is approximately 14%. When it reaches that level I sometimes take my lumber to the dry kiln. If I want to continue the air drying process, I bring the lumber into my shop and sticker and stack it. It takes about three months after being brought in to get down to 8-10%. That's with a dehumidifier and a fan going 24/7. It takes a little less time during winter months with the heat running. I do have central heat and air in my shop. On another note. I'm not sure if you've considered that ants and other insects love to build between boards that are not stickered and stacked. Also powder post beetles love wood that has a moisture content above 13%. They can't live in wood with a lower moisture content. Bottom line - sticker your wood. You'll be VERY happy that you did. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 Yeah, weeks of 80+ RH are common here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradseubert Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 Well my part time boss who's been in the lumber industry for about 35 years disagrees with you. I think I'll agree to agree with him. He also says moisture meters aren't worth the plastic they're made of. FWIW. Guess he also disagrees with the us forest service and university of Wisconsin Madison. These guys are considered the worldwide experts on lumber production and according to their manual on air drying lumber once you get below 20% there is no reason to sticker the stacks and you can bulk stack the piles to save space. See page 55. http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr117.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 I'm not gonna argue with ya man, and I'm certainly not gonna read that long ass document. I will say though...not sure the Forest Service or some lab rat at a university are the best sources of information on furniture making. Do what works for you. It's your wood and I don't care what you do with it. I'm not gonna waste my breath trying to convince you of conventional wisdom. I can't help it, I have to come back and edit to add... Just now, bradseubert said: once you get below 20% there is no reason to sticker the stacks Unless you want it to get any drier than 20%. Common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ..Kev Posted October 12, 2016 Popular Post Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 7 minutes ago, bradseubert said: Guess he also disagrees with the us forest service and university of Wisconsin Madison. These guys are considered the worldwide experts on lumber production and according to their manual on air drying lumber once you get below 20% there is no reason to sticker the stacks and you can bulk stack the piles to save space. See page 55. http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr117.pdf Actually, this is not quite correct. Here is the direct quote from that page. "In air drying, lumber is usually left on stickers in the yard until it reaches a moisture content between 20% and 25%. The lumber may then be ready for further processing, depending upon its end use. If it must be dried to lower moisture content levels, such as for use in furniture factories, the lumber will be kiln dried. " 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradseubert Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 I'm not gonna argue with ya man, and I'm certainly not gonna read that long ass document. I will say though...not sure the Forest Service or some lab rat at a university are the best sources of information on furniture making. Do what works for you. It's your wood and I don't care what you do with it. I'm not gonna waste my breath trying to convince you of conventional wisdom. I can't help it, I have to come back and edit to add... Unless you want it to get any drier than 20%. Common sense. You just had to read the one page that was quoted. But it's cool. Your clearly smarter than the people that literally wrote the book on drying lumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 1 minute ago, TIODS said: Here is the direct quote from that page. I'm glad Kev had the time to read this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adithep Posted October 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 Nuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 Just now, bradseubert said: You just had to read the one page that was quoted. But it's cool. Your clearly smarter than the people that literally wrote the book on drying lumber I couldn't get the PDF to load on my computer in a reasonable amount of time so I closed it. Anyway, Kev has already pointed out that you're talking apples when we're talking oranges. And again, the Forest Service may be a great source of info when you're talking forestry...guarantee they don't know the first thing about building a chair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradseubert Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 Actually, this is not quite correct. Here is the direct quote from that page. "In air drying, lumber is usually left on stickers in the yard until it reaches a moisture content between 20% and 25%. The lumber may then be ready for further processing, depending upon its end use. If it must be dried to lower moisture content levels, such as for use in furniture factories, the lumber will be kiln dried. " Right because it's taking about commercial processes. So you air dry until 20% and then kiln dry so you can use the product in a reasonable time or You can also continue to air dry until equilibrium. Moisture content. Did you read page 55? It clearly says once lumber reacher 20% there is no need to continue to sticker it and lumber can be taken down and bulk stacked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 Just now, bradseubert said: Did you read page 55? It clearly says once lumber reacher 20% there is no need to continue to sticker it and lumber can be taken down and bulk stacked. BUT IT WON'T GET ANY DRIER THAN 20% IF IT'S STACKED LIKE THAT. Willful ignorance or just plain don't get it??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradseubert Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 IF ITS BEEN SITTING IN A BARN FOR 40 YEARS IT IS AT EMC AND DOESN'T NEED TO GET DRYER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Eric. Posted October 12, 2016 Popular Post Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 15 minutes ago, bradseubert said: Right be used it's taking about commercial processes. So you air dry until 20% and then kiln dry so you can use the product. You can also continue to air dry until equilibrium. Moisture content. Did you read page 55? It clearly says once lumber reacher 20% there is no need to continue to sticker it and lumber can be taken down and bulk stacked. So, actually, your reference is to page 51 of the document, not page 55. Here's the quote " If the average moisture content of the lumber is greater than 20%, it should be protected in such a way that drying can be continued, as under a roof or in a shed. It should not be bulk piled because of the hazards of stain and decay development. When the moisture content of the lumber is less than 20%, the piles or packages may be wrapped with plastic tarpaulins or enclosed in prefabricated waterproof wrappings for temporary outdoor storage." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardA Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 If it were me, I'd just walk away, and let the OP do whatever the hell he wants to do, you're not going to be using the wood, so as they say in the Bronx "fagedabouit". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradseubert Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 If it were me, I'd just walk away, and let the OP do whatever the hell he wants to do, you're not going to be using the wood, so as they say in the Bronx "fagedabouit". Agreed. I'm done replying to this thread. Didn't mean to start a big debate. If you have the time and space it's certainly not going to hurt to sticker your lumber so best not to take any chances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 So, actually, your reference is to page 51 of the document, not page 55. Here's the quote " If the average moisture content of the lumber is greater than 20%, it should be protected in such a way that drying can be continued, as under a roof or in a shed. It should not be bulk piled because of the hazards of stain and decay development. When the moisture content of the lumber is less than 20%, the piles or packages may be wrapped with plastic tarpaulins or enclosed in prefabricated waterproof wrappings for temporary outdoor storage." What he was talking about is on page 57. "Outdoor Storage If air-dried lumber is at a moisture content of 20% or less, it can be bulk piled. " Not that I give a rats about any of this. Just helping people find the quote. Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..Kev Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 1 minute ago, bradseubert said: Agreed. I'm done replying to this thread. Didn't mean to start a big debate. If you have the time and space it's certainly not going to hurt to sticker your lumber so best not to take any chances. You referenced a very cool document but, it was built more for lumber mills/yards with packaging and shipping in mind than someone storing lumber in their barn or shop long term. Just now, shaneymack said: What he was talking about is on page 57. "Outdoor Storage If air-dried lumber is at a moisture content of 20% or less, it can be bulk piled. " Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk Agreed, for shipping purposes or short term storage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 Agreed, for shipping purposes or short term storage. Yup Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 Which has nothing to do with building furniture. So it's totally irrelevant. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 9 minutes ago, Eric. said: Which has nothing to do with building furniture. So it's totally irrelevant. Agreed. Sticker until dry. Dry enough for furniture making. I thought I was the one that liked to argue! I should start a poll about flour vs corn tortillas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 Just now, Llama said: Agreed. Sticker until dry. Dry enough for furniture making. I thought I was the one that liked to argue! I should start a poll about flour vs corn tortillas. Make sure one of the options is "if it's a taco, it goes in my mouth." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llama Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 3 minutes ago, Eric. said: Make sure one of the options is "if it's a taco, it goes in my mouth." Done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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