When is enough enough?

[jimbofoxman]

I've spent all this money on a nice cabinet saw, jointer, drill press, bandsaw, routers, planer, putting up walls, electrical stuff, etc, etc, etc. Shop is far from where I'd like it to be as far as completed . But almost everytime I come outta that shop all I've accomplished is making saw dust and kindling. I walk outta there pissed and ready to sell all my sh*t. It takes me forever to go back down there to try and work on something else. I got all these ideas to complete the shop, granted I can't work on them right now cause of cash flow. Got all these ideas for furniture for my house, new kitchen, etc, etc.

Like yesterday and today I wasted 4 hours dialing in this Leigh jig for 2 drawers I've been needing to complete for a friend for months. Wasted 3 hours yesterday tweaking, testing cutting, etc. Go back down there today, spend another hour dialing it in. Test pieces of birch fit nicely. Grab the good maple for this project , cut the four sides and two fronts. First one fits up fine.........excellent. Second one the pin breaks on the edge. Third and fourth one gaps, not in the dovetails..........but where the front and sides meet. So off they go to the kindling pile.

I've about had it............hate to invest all this money and time and money and time and money and time and make nothing but kindling.

[flairwoodworks]

Jim,

I'm really sorry to hear this.

There are all kinds of opinions on dovetail jigs. Many people love the Leigh jigs. For me, it's more effort to get it set up than it is worth. That may be because I have not had enough experience with it. I do know with the Leigh, the size of your stock is critical. So if your birch was slightly thicker or thinner than the maple, your efforts in testing and set-up were of little value other than the experience you gained.

I know it's sometimes easier said than done, but don't let stuff like this discourage you. Contrary to what mass-marketing/society wants you to believe, having all the nice expensive tools don't automatically make you a master woodworker. I've been woodworking for over a decade and that Leigh jig still gets the better of me. Fortunately, there are other options for joinery. I'm not saying to go buy more tools, but I'd suggest exploring other options for the time being. Dowels are a simple, strong joint.

Keep trying. If you really want to transform your ideas into reality, you will if you keep at it. Not sure where to start? That's what we're here for. Perhaps if you can isolate some of the troubles you are having, we can help you troubleshoot.

[PaulMarcel]

Well, from experience, if you don't have the correct bushing for your router, you'll get really really close, but never dial it in. Worse, it can look right one way but not the other way (board rotated... makes no sense, but that's what I found).

As for getting frustrated with it all, you need to build the kindling pile to learn; easier to learn on shop projects at first because if you get a gappy joint, figure out how to fix it (not redo it) and see the results. Some fixes are transparent, others seem like they should, but resemble a shiny neon sign. Helps, too, to go into making a shop project with the idea that you're gonna screw something up and that you're gonna have to figure out a fix and that the fix may take more time than doing it right the first time. At least that way, the waste of time isn't so bad as you've set yourself up for it.

So, my kindling moment with the dovetail jig... I spent a long time dialing in the joint and it didn't make sense why I couldn't get it consistent (like you) then realized I had the 'upgrade' bushing from Leigh in the router, not the one for the templates I had. Okay, switch them out. This time, I got them dialed in perfectly in a couple test passes. A friend wandered by and was talking to me when I started on the drawers. I ran tails on the pin boards before realizing my mistake. I left the stack there and went inside to leave the fix for the next day. Ended up adjusting the spacing and re-ran all the boards so I could get the pins on the pin board and tails on the tail board. They looked -ugly-. But when assembled, they didn't look as bad (the scallops on the pins was inside the joint) and some pins had visible gaps on the outside. Glued them up anyway. This was a stack of 5 drawers of varying sizes.

The next day, I used a hand saw to cut a kerf where the pins had visible gaps. Inserted a thin slice of the same wood, end-grain out (like a pin). I know they were botched like I explained, but when I look, I have a difficult time finding the offending pins.

The fix took as long as running the drawers through the jig, but that fix is now a useful skill for other fixes (well, dunno about the rest of you, but I seem to make bone-headed mistakes on every project).

So go buy some cheap hardwood... Poplar? Ash? and tinker with it for some shop cabinets or bench hook or shelf. Surest way to fail at it is to give up.

[wjffineww]

I know the feeling of frustration very well, I have made my own pile of fire wood over the last few years. All I can say is get back up on the horse and keep plugging away, it's the only way to get better. At this point you'll probably want to punch me in the face, but you really do learn the most valuable lessons from your mistakes. Good luck!

[Keggers]

Even when you screw up - you learn something. You learn how NOT to do something and won't make the same mistake again. I'm pretty much a self taught woodworker. I spent many thousands of dollars building a nice shop and filling it with many thousands of more dollars of equipment. Then I started reading and watching woodworking videos. I did have the local high school shop teacher come out to my shop to teach me how to safely operate my machines. But most of my learning came from trial and error and studying. Nothing worthwhile comes easy. If you mess something up just chalk it up to experience and plow ahead. You'll get it.

[kpetten]

I know exactly how you fell. Most of my frustration has been due to machine setup and accuracy. Everything starts with straight square lumber, and if your machines or what you use to set them up are off then the mess just snowballs from there.

Then you have days like today where you need 2 boards 51x5.75 and 2 boards 60x3.75 and you start by cutting 2 boards 51x 3.75!

It's a love/hate relationship.

But it do feel good to at least milling straight/square lumber...... and milling the legs for the shaker table project by accident was a nice silver lining.

[Vic]

Sorry to hear your frustration, Jim. You know my love for power tools, but on many things, I think the best thing is to slow down and sometimes look at the hand tool method. It's a much slower and easier way to sneak up on things. The only thing you have to master up front is the sharpening. I bought a Mark II for that. If it makes you feel any better, I've just spent the entire weekend installing a new Drift Master fence and it was a total PITA!! Also, now that it's installed, I have to tilt the table to make blade changes. Now, I'm almost ready to see if it's set up well. I need to do some resaw cuts. Wish me luck, but I'm sure I'll be making some nice kindling for my buddy's shop.

[jab73180]

I've spent all this money on a nice cabinet saw, jointer, drill press, bandsaw, routers, planer, putting up walls, electrical stuff, etc, etc, etc. Shop is far from where I'd like it to be as far as completed . But almost everytime I come outta that shop all I've accomplished is making saw dust and kindling. I walk outta there pissed and ready to sell all my sh*t. It takes me forever to go back down there to try and work on something else. I got all these ideas to complete the shop, granted I can't work on them right now cause of cash flow. Got all these ideas for furniture for my house, new kitchen, etc, etc.

Like yesterday and today I wasted 4 hours dialing in this Leigh jig for 2 drawers I've been needing to complete for a friend for months. Wasted 3 hours yesterday tweaking, testing cutting, etc. Go back down there today, spend another hour dialing it in. Test pieces of birch fit nicely. Grab the good maple for this project , cut the four sides and two fronts. First one fits up fine.........excellent. Second one the pin breaks on the edge. Third and fourth one gaps, not in the dovetails..........but where the front and sides meet. So off they go to the kindling pile.

I've about had it............hate to invest all this money and time and money and time and money and time and make nothing but kindling.

try http://www.newwoodworker.com/, he has some good reviews of the leigh jigs. they are some tips and tricks there too.

[petersb]

First let me start by saying that I was raised by a television. So what that means is that most of my wisdom has come from some sort of electronic media. One thing that I have learned, I learned from a Nestle Qwik commercial. You may remember the ones, where a cartoon rabbit can't drink his chocolate milk slow?

Patience and perserverance.

In order to hit a home run, you have to swing at the ball. Same with anything else that is worthwhile, it will take some time and many mistakes, but if you keep at it, next thing you know, you will be making more great projects(homeruns) than firewood(strikeouts).

Keep at it and don't let it get you down. Maybe you could pick a few smaller projects to do that will be useful and help build your confidence to get back out there and try some of the new equipment and projects with some fresh perspective. Just don't give it up for a "slump" in the shop.

[Beechwood Chip]

A cut is never just a cut. It's either several cuts sneaking up on the fit, or it's building a jig or clamping a guide and cutting test pieces until you can make repeatable, accurate cuts.

One thing I learned the hard way... watching Norm do four day projects in 20 minutes got me thinking that wood working was, "run it through the jointer, then the planer, then make a cut on the table saw, then go over to the chop saw, then the router table, then use the handheld router, and now we're ready for a dry fit."

In reality it's, "Look at the wood, then look at the grain, then look at some other wood, then look at the plans, then look at the grain, then run some wood through the jointer. Then run it through again, then again, until it's flat. But, it's not getting flat. Is that snipe? Where's that video on jointer calibration? I guess I need to wait until the straight-edge arrives."

There are experienced woodworkers whose tools are all dialed in from years of use, who have a nice supply of jigs already on hand, and who have years of experience. They may be able to go through a project like they show on TV. But it ain't me, babe, not now and not for many years to come.

I've got tons of shop projects that I need to do, and some of them are waiting for warmer weather because I don't want to use volatile chemicals without ventilation, and "ventilation" right now means "freeze your fingers off".

Does anyone know the old folk song, There's a hole in the bucket? Liza wants Henry to fetch some water, but he can't because there's a hole in the bucket. He can't mend the bucket because there's no straw, and he can't cut some straw because the knife is dull, and he can't sharpen the knife because the whetstone is dry, and he can't wet the stone because there's no water, and he can't fetch the water because....

Well, that what my woodworking feels like this winter. So, I'm trying to focus on little projects that I can complete with the tools that are already tuned up and that I'm comfortable working with.

[jimbofoxman]

Sadly the only reason I've gone down to the shop for the past 6 months is to finish a couple projects that I have been putting off..............not because I want to go down there, because I need too. No desire to be there cause I know the end result.

[Mr. Mc Jones]

I still remember when I first started out. uch like you bought the stuff thought was gonna be Norm…

Now after 16 years or so, Im still learnig new things and yes getting frustrated. But I know enogh about how things work now to come up with solutions.

Well I learned the hard way that there is no easy way to learn this. I suggest that you take some woodworking classes on the basics, Im sure that there is some offered in your area. There are some good videos out there to. Kelly Mehler has one on the table saw that is awesome.

Maybe take some at your local night school will have some classes. It is a process believe me.

Do I still get frustrated? Yes, I just subbed out some work b/c I got frustrated and once they are done Im going back in to finish the job. It does happen Jim. it is the nature of the beast.

Also check out some woodworking sites, woodworking.org is a very good site, this site has online training as well.

We all pay our dues believe me.

[ChetlovesMer]

Jim,

It sounds like you are very frustrated. I might suggest you think back to the reasons you got into woodworking in the first place. Was it to create masterpieces? Was it to get time to yourself? The feeling of accomplishment? Did you hope to make money doing it? ... What ever it was, think about that. Try to remember what excited you about this hobby. Focus on that. Then be patient. Then divide your project into a series of small projects and get some wins. Perhaps, just setting up the jig is a win? Perhaps finding all the materials is a win? I consider drawing up a good Sketch-UP plan or completing the design work, or even finding a nice set of plans a win. Brag about each step, either to yourself, your loved ones, or heck even your dog. (I have to confess to talking to my dog that a lot when I'm in the shop.)

Anyhow, if that doesn't work, then go play golf, or tennis, or rock-climb. Life is too long to work at a job you hate, and too short to spend time on a hobby you don't enjoy.

[PMR]

Sadly the only reason I've gone down to the shop for the past 6 months is to finish a couple projects that I have been putting off..............not because I want to go down there, because I need too. No desire to be there cause I know the end result.

Hi Jim, sorry to hear the wood is getting the best of you. Not knowing what you experience is I would suggest doing smaller projects, I've done picture frames, clocks, toy boxes along with some shop cabinates and other shop projects. I learn from each one and my confidence grows. Also my shop time is limited so it takes me a month or two to complete something that may take others a weekend or two. I mill my own wood (cherry,walnut,poplar)and use the poplar for setup and practice cuts, if that goes good then I know the good stuff will also. Take some time off if you need it will all be waiting for you when you are ready to go back to the shop. Best of luck Pat

[Terry Fogarty]

Jim, you need to chill out, relax and have some fun.

Don’t go into your workshop to do anything serious. Maybe make some cool toys and give them away to some kids or a few simple boxes for friends.

Woodworking is too good to get so disillusioned and giving it away.

[Pete Bennett]

Well, from experience, if you don't have the correct bushing for your router, you'll get really really close, but never dial it in. Worse, it can look right one way but not the other way (board rotated... makes no sense, but that's what I found).

As for getting frustrated with it all, you need to build the kindling pile to learn; easier to learn on shop projects at first because if you get a gappy joint, figure out how to fix it (not redo it) and see the results. Some fixes are transparent, others seem like they should, but resemble a shiny neon sign. Helps, too, to go into making a shop project with the idea that you're gonna screw something up and that you're gonna have to figure out a fix and that the fix may take more time than doing it right the first time. At least that way, the waste of time isn't so bad as you've set yourself up for it.

So, my kindling moment with the dovetail jig... I spent a long time dialing in the joint and it didn't make sense why I couldn't get it consistent (like you) then realized I had the 'upgrade' bushing from Leigh in the router, not the one for the templates I had. Okay, switch them out. This time, I got them dialed in perfectly in a couple test passes. A friend wandered by and was talking to me when I started on the drawers. I ran tails on the pin boards before realizing my mistake. I left the stack there and went inside to leave the fix for the next day. Ended up adjusting the spacing and re-ran all the boards so I could get the pins on the pin board and tails on the tail board. They looked -ugly-. But when assembled, they didn't look as bad (the scallops on the pins was inside the joint) and some pins had visible gaps on the outside. Glued them up anyway. This was a stack of 5 drawers of varying sizes.

The next day, I used a hand saw to cut a kerf where the pins had visible gaps. Inserted a thin slice of the same wood, end-grain out (like a pin). I know they were botched like I explained, but when I look, I have a difficult time finding the offending pins.

The fix took as long as running the drawers through the jig, but that fix is now a useful skill for other fixes (well, dunno about the rest of you, but I seem to make bone-headed mistakes on every project).

So go buy some cheap hardwood... Poplar? Ash? and tinker with it for some shop cabinets or bench hook or shelf. Surest way to fail at it is to give up.

Paul what you did is EXACTLY what any die hard Pro does all the time believe me. Sure I've made literally thousands of dovetails, always by hand have never used any jig. But, on the odd occasion when they do not fit exactly the 'correct' method you used is the right method, if done carefully the only person who will ever know is you and in a couple of hundred years time, the guy who breaks it up for firewood.

[DaBear]

Jim,

I can only echo other sentiments of "don't give up". I hear you when you talk about disappointment, but it gets better, honest ..

Walk away, take some time, and come back fresh. It'll work...

Remember, we're pullin' for ya..

[jon003]

I feel your pain. I've had days like that. Best to just step back and do something else for a while if you feel the frustration build up. Hobbies should be fun!

WRT the jig: Dovetail jigs can be kind of a pain. The leigh, very much so. Dialing that in is a lot of work. I ended up selling mine and learning to cut by hand. So much less work involved! I kept my simple porter cable jig for when I need to grind out a big stack of drawers, but for one or two here and there, I cut them by hand now.

[jHop]

Jim,

I can only echo other sentiments of "don't give up". I hear you when you talk about disappointment, but it gets better, honest ..

Walk away, take some time, and come back fresh. It'll work...

Remember, we're pullin' for ya..

I took a break myself, to work on something else that normally gives me some of those 'warm fuzzies.' After three weeks, and a couple hundred dollars, the mechanic fixed what I couldn't. I finally stepped back into the shop with a little of my old stride in my step. And promptly lost it when I turned on the lathe and forgot that I had not fixed the tool rest.

Going into the shop with a grumpy attitude doesn't help. Going in expecting failure doesn't help. Going in thinking you are just going to goof up again doesn't help. I should know. I stayed away from several things because i thought I'd never complete the project, or if I did, it wouldn't amount to much.

So tomorrow, Jim, try to do a small project. Make it simple. Heck, try some of the pencil boxes Marc demonstrated. Your goal for this visit is simply to run your hands over the wood, and not get in too deep. The simple projects, with the simple joinery, help rekindle the passion and the confidence far better. Trust me.

[jHop]

A further update: I decided to attempt the back brakes on my car today. I have gotten some grinding recently (started Tuesday, haven't had the driveway clear enough to work on the car until today) out of the back right brake. I knew I needed to replace the wheel cylinder, so I took the opportunity to change it while replacing the drum and shoes. (yes, i know you're supposed to replace both drums and cylinders at the same time. budget constraints.)

So, after putting the jack through the floorboard, and finally getting the car off the ground, I break the brake line, lose two springs, and discover I need to replace a wheel stud and lug nut. And lost the light, and had to stop because the fingers were too cold to work anymore.

I enjoy working on cars. I really do. Usually, this is not a big deal. Car repairs (for the little things) usually only takes two or three times the time a regular mechanic takes, but I enjoy getting my hands to rebuild something. This has been five weeks of misery, cost, and frustration. So I really do understand your pain. Sometimes, you need to muscle through it, and sometimes you need to take some time off.

It may help to slow down the ambition, and the projects. It also helps know when to come in for the night. (And keep a tub of hand cleaner near by.)

I have to laugh, though, and keep a thought in my mind. Courtesy of Red Green, "If it ain't broke, you aren't trying."

[EdDitto]

Jim: take some heart, brother. Woodworking is a mental and spiritual journey as much as it is a physical one. You make a lot more than furniture in your shop.

See, I don't talk about my woodworking with my friends much, but when I do, I'm frank about telling them that I do it because I suck at it. It's a way for me to stretch myself; a way to keep learning and to stay humble. Which isn't always easy. I see these guys like Marc and the ones in the Fine Woodworking videos and I feel like a failure sometimes...like: "What have they got that I haven't got?" There's a lesson in that…one that, like many I've learned in my shop, has carried over into other areas of my life.

-I've enriched my family relationships by improving my patience and perseverance.

-I now have a much safer approach to any kind of physical work.

-I'm less reluctant to try new things.

-I've networked out and met cool people (on this board and elsewhere.)

There are others, too, and I'm sure you can fill a few of them in.

So…yeah, adding to that kindling pile can be frustrating. But the thing that keeps me sane is that I've learned to look at the work of people who are better at this than me with a sense of joy rather than a sense of envy. I'm glad Norm's as skilled as he is (or else who would I learn from?), and I no longer take his knowledge as a reflection on my ignorance. Maybe I'll be that skilled someday and maybe not, but I can at least keep trying.

If that fails, well, AJ is onto something when he quotes Red Green. Here's the Possum Lodge's Men's Prayer: "I'm a man...but I can change...if I have to...I guess."

[TheNehlsEnd]

Hi Jim,

From your post you sound like a man on a mission that must be accomplished. While making projects of fine furniture and fancy dovetails is great. Sometimes our skill levels get in the way of our accomplishments. I assume you are like many of us who are self taught and watch all the videos and say I can do that. Try going to the shop without a goal in mind except to relax and tinker around. Through tinkering I often get those aha moments where things become clear and I've learned something I have been trying to do. I find that I may have 3-4 projects going at one time. This allows me to walk away from a frustrating situation and do something else, to come back later and see a solution to the problem. There are days when I don't do anything but put on a pot of coffee and some music and walk around the shop and do maintenance on equipment and sharpen chisels and plane blades. I find the more I go to the shop the more I learn. Try going to the shop to relax and enjoy yourself. The more you dread going to the shop and anticipating failure the more you will avoid the shop. Remember the K.I.S.S. principal and forget about goals for awhile till your going to the shop to relax and have fun playing, eventually the playing will turn into accomplishments that you will be proud of. Take care and I hope things get better soon for you.

[Green Head]

Screw it, woodworking sucks. Just let me know when I need to be there to get all those tools out of your way.

[JimB1]

I know exactly where you are coming from. I have a honey do list that seems to be never ending.

Sometimes you just have to say to heck with the stuff I have to do and tinker for a bit. Make a jig, a new tool holder, something simple or silly just to complete it and get over the "I can't" hump. Time for yourself is necessary just like getting the work done is. The weekend before last I took half of a saturday and puttered around the shop. Just stuff that I wanted to get done for a while. My shop is not even half way done so sometimes even going in there is overwhelming because there's so much that I have to do just for my self let alone around the rest of the house. I put a new laminated top on my router table, put the first row of french cleats around 2/3rd of the shop walls, made a chisel rack that would work on the french cleats and started a simple shelf setup for over my workbench. Nothing major but it was forward motion on my shop and got me thinking about how to do some other things that needed to get done. Just a little break to do some low pressure stuff to relax.

I remember a story (I think it was from a time management seminar but pretty apropos ) about a logger who was running around cutting down trees like crazy because he was behind quota. A hunter was watching him for a while and noticed that his saw was really dull and it was taking him 3 times as long to cut down the trees as it should have and the logger was really getting winded. He asked him why he didn't stop to sharpen the saw, the logger angrily replied "because that would take time and I'm already behind" So by ignoring the things he needed to do for himself, he worked 3 times as hard to get the same job done and couldn't even see that it was happening.

Remember to take time to sharpen your saw...

-Jim