Waxed turning blocks

[Mark J]

Yesterday evening I mounted and partially turned a mimosa block that I had purchased. 

The block was waxed on 6 sides. 

This morning I returned to continue turning and find 3 cracks.  One of these probably spells doom for the bowl.  I am going to continue turning to see if I can save it, but I'm not taking bets.

I'm frustrated and aggrevated.  I assume the block was not fully dry, hence the wax.  But I paid good money for this block and invested good time in the design and turning thus far.  So what is the customer supposed to do with a wet block of wood?

[Brendon_t]

Not a Turner but from the turning videos I've seen on YouTube, it looks like people often partially turn the form removing 60- 70 percent ish of waste and then start it drying in a bag. Once dried, they finish turning. I'd assume the thicker walls of the piece after initial turning help it to not crack all to hell.

With that said, I've seen a video where the same thing you are describing happened. They taped the out side and poured turquoise colored epoxy into the crack after it was fully dry. This was done with 4 or 5 pours. After the bowl was finish turned the turquoise "veins" looked amazing and the blank was saved.

[thatCharlieDude]

3 hours ago, Mark J said:

I'm frustrated and aggrevated.  I assume the block was not fully dry, hence the wax.  But I paid good money for this block and invested good time in the design and turning thus far.  So what is the customer supposed to do with a wet block of wood?

I'm sorry that happened, I can imagine that being frustrating.  The companies I bought waxed blanks from usually state if they're dry or green. If they're green I put them on a shelf and wait until the moisture meter says they're "dry". I guess you're going to need to get a meter so you can test your blanks. If you think they're wet then shelve them for a while.  

Have you tried filling the cracks with CA or epoxy?

[Mark J]

I went back and turned and sure enough the crack of doom let go and a small chunk flew off.  Fortunately it was a single fragment and I was able to reattach it with CA glue.  Unfortunately the seam is visible (a teensy tiny bit visible-- just enough to keep me aggrevated).

With the fragment reattached I was able to turn the outside and I've started sanding.  There are still at least 2 hair line cracks and I will have to see what happens to them when I turn the inside which might not be for a day or two.

But @thatCharlieDude explain to me how you dry a block that's coated in wax?  Or if you take the wax off, how you do that?

(Which leaves aside the point that a ready cut block should be ready to turn, arrrgggghhh).

[thatCharlieDude]

29 minutes ago, Mark J said:

But @thatCharlieDude explain to me how you dry a block that's coated in wax?  Or if you take the wax off, how you do that?

(Which leaves aside the point that a ready cut block should be ready to turn, arrrgggghhh).

It will still breathe or lose water coated in wax or paint. When I'm ready to turn a waxed blank I'll just throw it on the lathe and remove the wax as I turn it. 

The idea is to control and slow the release of water to minimize cracks. 

[thatCharlieDude]

I bought four of these ambrosia maple blanks in March and a couple of week later I started turning one. Luckily I didn't get very far into the project when I noticed the blank had warped over night. I ended up painting the blank with green wood sealer and putting it on the shelf until July. It turned beautifully and it didn't warp any. I still have 2 blanks sitting on the shelf, they're waxed, and once I have a project for them I'll turn 'em. 

 

 

[Coop]

2 hours ago, thatCharlieDude said:

It will still breathe or lose water coated in wax or paint. When I'm ready to turn a waxed blank I'll just throw it on the lathe and remove the wax as I turn it. 

The idea is to control and slow the release of water to minimize cracks. 

Charlie, I’m not doubting your word by any means, just wondering. I’m not a turner so therefore know nothing about waxed blocks but, if it will “breath and loose moisture”, why are they waxed? I’ve seen them at Rockler and just assumed the wax was to keep them dry and stable? 

[wdwerker]

Wax or sealer slows down evaporation. If you don't have a moisture meter weigh the block on an accurate digital scale and track the weight. When it stabilizes it might be ready to turn.  The sell them waxed so they don't crack before they are sold. 

[thatCharlieDude]

5 minutes ago, K Cooper said:

Charlie, I’m not doubting your word by any means, just wondering. I’m not a turner so therefore know nothing about waxed blocks but, if it will “breath and loose moisture”, why are they waxed? I’ve seen them at Rockler and just assumed the wax was to keep them dry and stable? 

I've only been turning for about a year but everything I've read and watched says to wax or paint your blanks as soon as you cut them (green wood) to slow the release of water. Rapid water loss is what causes the wood to crack. You want the drying to be uniform. In my limited experience this seems to be true. I've seen freshly cut wood crack over night. I've had pieces I've cut and protected dry w/o cracking and the cast-off pieces that weren't protected crack and split. 

Coop, I suspect the blanks at the store were waxed to protect them during transport and to keep them from drying out/stable. I haven't had a wet blank from a store but I guess it could happen. Those ambrosia blanks I bought from ebay were definitely wet. 

 

[Coop]

4 minutes ago, wdwerker said:

The sell them waxed so they don't crack before they are sold. 

That sucks! So when you take the wax off, they crack? And people know this and still buy them? I’ve been in the wrong business way too long! 

[Marmotjr]

End grain releases moisture faster than the face of a blank, so the wax is there is stop the moisture from escaping from the end grain.  It usually common practice to only seal the ends of the blanks, but I've seen blanks that are completely encased.   I guess the effort to only dip the ends is more than the amount of wax they lose doing the whole thing. 

If you get a blank that's completely encased in wax, you can either 1) Leave it till its ready to turn, and then do the whole thing in one shot, hoping it's dried, or 2) Scrape off the wax from the faces, leaving the end grain sealed up, and let it stabilize like @wdwerker said, or 3) Rough turn the whole thing like @Brendon_t said, and let it dry for a while as a semi turned project.

While it sounds dumb and asking for trouble, the first option can be preferable if movement is not a concern.  If you leave the walls a little thicker, a bowl can handle some shifts.  If you turn it so it has an organic feel to it, like a live edge or other style, and then let it warp naturally, giving it an even more organic look to the piece.   But if you're looking for a piece with precise details, this is a total gamble. 

If you are in a hurry, you can microwave a blank to speed up the stabilization process a lot, you can turn 6 months of drying into 6 hours.   I'd think you'd still want to keep the ends sealed, so after first session, you'd have to reseal the ends with a paint, cause the blanks get surprisingly hot (at least I was surprised, but then I'm not always the brightest ) and the wax will melt off.   Or you can rough turn the blank into a rough bowl, and then microwave the water out of it.  

[Mark J]

Thanks for the commiseration and advice.    

Checked on the bowl this morning.  Same three hairlines, not any bigger and nothing new.  Might still have something when I'm done.   At least the shape.

Intersesting suggestions.  That mimosa block had sat in my workshop for a few months.  Obviously still not completely dry.  

I think I'm going to explore option 4:  don't buy any ready to spin blocks that have wax on them 'cause they ain't ready to spin.  If recollection serves a lot of the domestics are sold wax free.  Even end grain wax would be preferable to fully waxed. 

By the way, when you tlak about scraping the wax off what are you using and how aggressive are you getting?  I imagine the wax will get into the crevices of the rough cut wood.

[Marmotjr]

1 hour ago, Mark J said:

By the way, when you tlak about scraping the wax off what are you using and how aggressive are you getting?  I imagine the wax will get into the crevices of the rough cut wood

I'm thinking as simple as a putty knife scraping it off or as 'drastic' as planing it clean.  I guess it would depend on the blank and what you want.

If you have a jointer, then just joint the faces till the grain is exposed and clean. This will keep the ends sealed, while giving you a look at the grain, allowing to decide the orientation for the final piece.   It's a real disappointment for the turner to finish a nice piece only to wish you had turned it in a different orientation to highlight the grain.

If you don't have a jointer big enough to handle some of the faces, then you can plane it on a planing sled, or just use a hand plane.  A table saw jointing sled (a variation on a taper sled) will easily get the smaller faces.  You don't care if the sides are square or parallel, those edges will all be waste anyways.     

[Brendon_t]

On 11/29/2017 at 6:38 PM, K Cooper said:

That sucks! So when you take the wax off, they crack? And people know this and still buy them? I’ve been in the wrong business way too long! 

Coop, turners often like to turn things greenish.. makes no sense to me either but hey.. they're turners after all.

[Mark J]

7 hours ago, Brendon_t said:

Coop, turners often like to turn things greenish.. makes no sense to me either but hey.. they're turners after all.

Not this turner!  Not when he's pluncked down good money for a square block he thought was spin ready!   (You know I am going to get over this, someday, maybe tomorrow, or the next day).

Actually, I finished the bowl today and it came out well except for the 3 hair line cracks which I think renders it non-gift worthy.

Here's pictures:

I have not done much green wood turning (not intentionally),  but I think turners go green because you can.

You can take a piece of found wood spin it to a rough approximate shape and then wrap it up and let the smaller mass of wood dry slowly.  Then when dry finish the shape.  

This process does not work so well with cabinet doors or dresser drawers.

I'll give green a try someday,  but right now I need more immediate gratification.

[mat60]

Wow.  Nice work.

[Marmotjr]

Nice use of the wings.  "Ghost" turning can get scary sometimes if the lights aren't setup properly.  Nice job. 

[Coop]

A round bowl with a square top and all kinds of neat stuff! Marl,  that is way cool! 

[wdwerker]

I can't see any hairline cracks so the recipient might not either.  I wouldn't sell a cracked piece without full disclosure but it's just proof of a handmade object from a natural material when it's a gift !