Pwk5017 Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 Does anyone have much experience with these newer stones? My current sharpening media is a mix match set of mostly subpar stuff, and i was fortunate to get a good price on a set of used glass stones. I currently have a 220/1000 norton, 4000 king, and then a good 8000 shapton pro with a DMT diamond plate. The glass set is a 1k, 4k, 8k, and 16k with their diamond lapping plate. Im curious to see if i notice a difference between the new glass backed stones versus the shapton pro i have. Also, does anyone sharpen beyond 8k? Is that effective or a waste of time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chestnut Posted January 15, 2018 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 6 minutes ago, Pwk5017 said: Does anyone have much experience with these newer stones? My current sharpening media is a mix match set of mostly subpar stuff, and i was fortunate to get a good price on a set of used glass stones. I currently have a 220/1000 norton, 4000 king, and then a good 8000 shapton pro with a DMT diamond plate. The glass set is a 1k, 4k, 8k, and 16k with their diamond lapping plate. Im curious to see if i notice a difference between the new glass backed stones versus the shapton pro i have. Also, does anyone sharpen beyond 8k? Is that effective or a waste of time? Tom King makes a compelling argument to sharpen beyond 8k in a sharpening thread he created a while ago. I personally sharpen to 6k and then strop with some sort of stropping compound. I don't really know who to believe on sharpening because it seems that no matter who you ask someone believes differently. So i just use what works. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 I sharpen past 8k, but mostly because my setup stays ready to go all the time, so there's negligible time spent going higher. The sharper the edge, the longer between sharpenings you can work. When I'm doing a lot of planing, I usually start at 6k, and go up from there, between planing sessions. I don't know much about the Shaptons. I'm not a big fan of hard stones, but I sharpen by feel, so feel matters most to me. I never bother to feel for a wire edge, or test the edge. I don't strop, unless you call Diamond Lapping Film on granite surface plates stropping, but it's really not since the surface is always completely flat. Sharpening is a very personal preference thing. There is no real right or wrong, as long as you find what you like, and it works for you. edited to add: The planes I was using in the video in this thread were sharpened between sessions starting at 6k, and going up. If I waited longer to sharpen, I would have had to go farther back in the process. As it was, I expect I could plane for a couple of hours or so before honing again, but this was Heart Cypress, so not the hardest of woods. These are stock Stanley irons in the video. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown craftsman Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 I bought my shaptons stones from Stanley Harrellson. All of mine are the pro Stones but I did get a really good deal on the 30k glass stone. But I don't use it very often from what I remember he recommended the pros stones for Japanese steel. And the Glass stones were good for both A2 and Japanese steels. I might be wrong I going off a failing memory. Have you seen his Nanotechnology honing plates? His free handsharpening skills are sic,if you ever get a chance to hangout with him at a show I highly recommend it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dknapp34 Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 I use 8k and 16k Shapton glass stones. They work well for me. It might be all in my head, but I can tell the difference between an edge sharpened to 8k versus 16k. My lower grit stones are cheaper Japanese water stones, I almost never need to use them anymore, because I try to keep everything really sharp with the Shaptons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkinneb Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 2 hours ago, Dknapp34 said: I use 8k and 16k Shapton glass stones. They work well for me. It might be all in my head, but I can tell the difference between an edge sharpened to 8k versus 16k. My lower grit stones are cheaper Japanese water stones, I almost never need to use them anymore, because I try to keep everything really sharp with the Shaptons. x2 not sure I can tell the difference in use between 8k and 16k but damn those chisel backs look amazing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 I sharpen to 13000 with sigma power and then strop and it's insanely sharp ! To me it seems sharper than when I used to sharpen to 8k but maybe I'm trying to make myself feel better about buying the 13k stone. LoL 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 4 hours ago, Unknown craftsman said: Have you seen his Nanotechnology honing plates? Holy Mackeral!! 500$ USD for a lapping plate ? I thought I was crazy for spending 200$ on the dmt dia-flat ! https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Nano-Hone-Button-Tech-Lapping-Plate-Large-P1558.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted January 15, 2018 Report Share Posted January 15, 2018 Kind of makes my Atoma sheets mounted on a granite surface plate look a lot cheaper. Must be for someone that does a lot more sharpening than I do. I have the 140 and 400 100 x 200 (about 4 x 8 inches) sheets mounted on a 35 dollar granite surface plate (flat to .001 mm, and that a hump in the middle of the 9x12 inch plate, as shown by the map that came with it). http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=335_462_544 No noticeable wear in several years using them. I don't use the coarse stones much, so the 140 doesn't get used hardly at all. The 400 has been used a bunch of times though. I use it under running water, so that may, or may not help by carrying the slurry right away. It's not something I'd want to move around though. It sits in place, and all I have to do is swing the spout (double jointed long) over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown craftsman Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 3 hours ago, shaneymack said: Holy Mackeral!! 500$ USD for a lapping plate ? I thought I was crazy for spending 200$ on the dmt dia-flat ! https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Nano-Hone-Button-Tech-Lapping-Plate-Large-P1558.aspx I have the Shapton Diamond lapping plate that was 5 bills but at least it has two sides. The Japanese woodworks are have some expensive habits. Way beyond my needs. I do like Japanese chisels but never got into the handplanes. I don't think it's a mass production need.Its more like I got this 2k handplane so a 500$ lapping plate doesn't hurt my pocket change. I like to see someone try to flatin a hard ark with one. Aj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekcohen Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 10 hours ago, Pwk5017 said: Does anyone have much experience with these newer stones? My current sharpening media is a mix match set of mostly subpar stuff, and i was fortunate to get a good price on a set of used glass stones. I currently have a 220/1000 norton, 4000 king, and then a good 8000 shapton pro with a DMT diamond plate. The glass set is a 1k, 4k, 8k, and 16k with their diamond lapping plate. Im curious to see if i notice a difference between the new glass backed stones versus the shapton pro i have. Also, does anyone sharpen beyond 8k? Is that effective or a waste of time? I have Shapton Pro as well as Sigma. The Glass Shaptons are not a good deal when you consider that they are half the thickness of the Pros, and there is no performance gain. If you are going to get Shaptons, get the Pros. The Shapton 1000 is a great stone, but I prefer the Sigma for the 6000 and 13000 (over the Pro Shapton 5000 and 12000, which I also have). I upgraded to the Sigmas as I was unhappy with the performance of the Shaptons on steels such as A2 and PM-V11. I also have the Shapton diamond lapping plate. I purchased this fairly cheaply from a deceased estate. It is otherwise very expensive and I believe one is better off buying an Atoma for a fraction of the price. Regards from Perth Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwk5017 Posted January 16, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 Phew, glad i didnt overpay for these things after the Schwartz article that was just posted and Derek's comments. $165 for about $900 in stones, holder, and lapping plate. I was under the impression the glass stones wore substantially slower than the pro series, which is why they are so thin. I might end up keeping my DMT and 8k shapton pro stone along with all the glass stones. Hope to not have to buy another stone or sharpening accessory for the next 10-20 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 Question, Mr. Rodgers has recently gone to solely diamond plates for sharpening. If someone was starting out or their stone is wearing down quite a bit, is this advisable? It seems to me that it would eliminate the whole messy flattening part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 Being a "feel" sharpener, diamond stones are at the bottom of the list for desirable stones to me. I used Arkansas oil stones for probably 35 years before getting my first water stones. I used Norton stones for maybe a decade, and am now a Sigma convert. Unless anyone does a lot more sharpening than I have done, any of these stones should last you a lifetime-especially for hobby use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 I've never used Shaptons, but I like my Sigmas a lot. They're worlds better than my old Nortons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 I tried a Shapton, but don't really like the hard stones. From the ones I've used, the Shaptons rank right below diamond stones for feel. Nortons will get the job done, but Sigmas are several factors faster at doing the same work. Nortons are probably a factor of ten faster than Arkansas oil stones, but that's not from any scientific analysis, just years of use. I expect the Sigmas are faster cutting than the Shaptons, but I couldn't really tell by feel when the Shapton was done, so probably did more strokes. With Arkansas stones, and Sigmas, I can tell the exact stroke when that stone has done what it can do. When it feels like it's cutting down into the surface of the stone, although it's really not, it's done. With just some water splashed on the surface, that can fool you with feel. Under running water, shortage of water on the surface is not a factor. There are other really good water stones too, but I never wanted to take the time to worry about building up a slurry to get one to go to work, so those were eliminated soon after the start. I still think the Tools from Japan set is the best deal going for what you get relative to cost, but you do have to wait for it to get here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted January 18, 2018 Report Share Posted January 18, 2018 The hard stones are good for someone who is going to sharpen by hand. The Sigmas will work, but the surface is much more susceptible to being gouged. My 10K Sigma was purchased used, off another forums from a well respected expert on sharpening. It's probably been through several hundred sharpening sessions since I bought it, with a regular amount of flattenings, and it still has gouges in it that were there when I bought it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekcohen Posted January 18, 2018 Report Share Posted January 18, 2018 Soft stones, such as King, are ideal for beginner users of waterstones as they are very forgiving. Hard stones, such as Shapton Pro and Sigma, are really the domain of the experienced. They may be easier to gouge, as Tom notes, but they offer the most feedback. This is appreciated by especially those that sharpen freehand. Regards from Perth Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted January 18, 2018 Report Share Posted January 18, 2018 Except for light honing, I always use a guide, just because of the gouging hazard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwk5017 Posted January 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 received the stones yesterday and gave them a shot today. They cut freakishly fast. I'd say much faster than my shapton pro. I was taking chisels that I haven't sharpened in months from 1k through the grits to 16k in a matter of a minute. When I first start on a blade, I like to mark the tip with a sharpie to know I've established an uninterrupted bevel from tip to tip, and I was amazed how much work a few strokes did on each stone. I felt like the norton and king stones took 3-4x the amount of strokes. Edge looks fantastic, so now it's a matter of taking them to some wood to find out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekcohen Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 Quote They cut freakishly fast. I'd say much faster than my shapton pro I assume that you are referring to the 8000 only, since you mentioned before that that was your only Shapton Pro? Incidentally, what type of steel are you sharpening? Regards from Perth Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenMasco Posted January 23, 2018 Report Share Posted January 23, 2018 I have been using the Shapton stones for about two years, and I love them. I have the following grits: 500, 1000, 4000, and 8000. I use dmt extra coarse and coarse for aggressive grinding an the Shapton stones for the rest. Hard for me to imagine better stones than Shapton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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