pkinneb Posted November 17, 2018 Report Share Posted November 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Steve in Phoenix said: Ok, I have dialed in this machine. The inserts are within 0.002" across the 15". Infeed and outfeed rollers, and chipbreaker at -0.020". Bed rollers at .001-.002". And I need advice regarding managing expectations. Over the years I have heard about the spiral cutters' glass-like finish. If the reality is otherwise, I need to know. The photo attached comes with a couple of caveats...the ripples are 0.001" or less, and sand out easily with 150 grit. And on that side of the planer are the belts, whose pulleys are out of alignment by at least 0.100", and may be causing vibration (in my opinion). But seriously impossible to adjust. If anyone would post a photo with revealing, raking light, of the kind of results they get with this type of planer, I would be most appreciative, and buy you a beer if you are in Phoenix... There is no way that is acceptable off a planner unless you are showing us a magnified pic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted November 17, 2018 Report Share Posted November 17, 2018 These are off my Grizzly G0453Z. This is a 15" spiral head with 74 inserts. They face square to the feed direction. That is, they are not angled like a Byrd head. I think you will be happier if you just accept that something is very wrong with that machine. You should be seeing this: This is still no where near a surface I would put finish on but, you can see that your machine should get you a lot closer to that state then it is. Even though I have the pressure on the feed rollers backed way off I will still get serration marks on soft woods like mahogany or when taking a very light pass. Here's a good example of that on some walnut: That is a 3/8" wide chisel for scale. This is the inside of a rail support that will never be seen. This is typical of a surface I get if I try to use this machine like a finish planer . . . which it is not ;-). One is better off to use a card scraper, hand plane or even a sanding block when you only need a 64th or so more, taken off. P.s. I got my curiosity up and so went back to the original pictures of me unpacking and setting mine up. I had the plywood box off at 8:17 am and planed my first board at 10:40 am. All I had to do was level the extensions, lower the bed rollers and lighten the tension on the feed rollers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve in Phoenix Posted November 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2018 I'm going to run more seasoned wood through before I make a determination. I bought some poplar for this experiment, but I think the supplier put it right out for sale. I have have hard maple that has been acclimating in the shop for a month. I was avoiding using it for this because it is for bass guitar necks, not machine setup...but gotta do it to know for sure... The attached photos are pretty revealing...I can't decide if I'm surprised or embarrassed...but we're all friends here, so check it out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted November 18, 2018 Report Share Posted November 18, 2018 Hate to ask this, have you set the feed rollers according to the manual? Just took a spin through the manual online. Seems straightforward. It has to be a feed roller too low in realation to the cutter head if the planer uses a helical head. There is no other option that leaves those marks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted November 18, 2018 Report Share Posted November 18, 2018 Sorry Steve, I don't understand what the labels on the pics mean. Is the top one the jointer and the bottom the planer? If so, I stand by my opinion that something is very out of whack with that machine. I have never had a machine give wonky results like that, used or new right off the pallet. I do dial my machines in for the best result I can get but, you have been through this thing a few times and it is still mangling your material. Have you sent a pic to Jet? I don't recall if you said that earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark J Posted November 18, 2018 Report Share Posted November 18, 2018 I think he is saying that the washboard develops over time. Immediately off the machine the surface is pretty flat, but 15 minutes later it's rippled. But I agree at some point you need to talk to Jet, Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted November 18, 2018 Report Share Posted November 18, 2018 The feed rollers are in that pattern. When the infeed roller is too low, it compresses fibers. The cutter planes, and then the compressed fibers relax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve in Phoenix Posted November 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, Mark J said: I think he is saying that the washboard develops over time. Immediately off the machine the surface is pretty flat, but 15 minutes later it's rippled. But I agree at some point you need to talk to Jet, Steve. Yes, the poplar cupped in 15 minutes... I have spoken to Jet. They are waiting for more feedback from me. But the unstable wood is not going to be a good representation. And machine is setup per manual using a Oneway Multi Gauge to within 0.001all around (which took some doing with the cutter). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve in Phoenix Posted November 18, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, Tpt life said: The feed rollers are in that pattern. When the infeed roller is too low, it compresses fibers. The cutter planes, and then the compressed fibers relax. I was thinking so too, it just seemed hard to believe when planing off 0.063" at a time. But the pattern measures exactly the same as the infeed roller. Currently set 0.020" below cutter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted November 18, 2018 Report Share Posted November 18, 2018 That’s backward. The manual calls for .02 above. It says gauge block the cutter then stack .02 on top of the gauge block for the roller. Oops, no. It calls for flush. .02 on the block for cutterhead, .02 on the block for rollers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted November 18, 2018 Report Share Posted November 18, 2018 You also want to be sure the roller is free to travel as there is some spring play designed into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted November 19, 2018 Report Share Posted November 19, 2018 15 hours ago, Steve in Phoenix said: I was thinking so too, it just seemed hard to believe when planing off 0.063" at a time. But the pattern measures exactly the same as the infeed roller. Currently set 0.020" below cutter. On this style of planer, light cuts do not yield optimal results. I still get light marks as shown on that walnut if I am taking much under 1/16”. You have to remove enough material to remove the serration marks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve in Phoenix Posted November 19, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 19, 2018 33 minutes ago, gee-dub said: On this style of planer, light cuts do not yield optimal results. I still get light marks as shown on that walnut if I am taking much under 1/16”. You have to remove enough material to remove the serration marks. This gets me to thinking about the settings for the rollers. If the outfeed is set for 0.020" below the cutter then that is all that is pressed against the planed surface. However, if the infeed roller is set 0.020" below the cutter, then the depth of cut plus 0.020" will be pressing against the material. That seems like alot of pressure, regardless the spring setting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted November 19, 2018 Report Share Posted November 19, 2018 I feel like you may be beating a dead horse here ;-) My similar-style Grizzly G0453Z uses this setup which is what I confirmed upon delivery, it was near-perfect. All I did was lower the bed rollers below the table and back off the pressure on the feed rollers as had been recommended on several forums over many years of this planer's (and other clones) production. The factory setting are more for planing things with a texture like railroad The bed roller tension is adjusted here on mine. I backed mine off so far I put a drop of hot-melt glue on the screw/casting junction to make sure they didn't vibrate looser (and maybe pop out). I was being over careful perhaps. Either that or the glue has held for 9 years of use. I really hope Jet helps you get this resolved. It is a fairly simple machine and setup should be very straight forward unless something is amiss. If there is anything else I can check on my machine, take pictures of, etc. let me know, I am glad to try to help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve in Phoenix Posted November 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2018 New machine coming next thursday...thanks to a really great dealer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom King Posted November 20, 2018 Report Share Posted November 20, 2018 When finish off the planer is the best way, as if we have hundreds of parts to run, final run is on a little 12" Grizzly molder/planer that has rubber infeed, and outfeed rollers. That's the only time that machine gets used as a planer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted November 20, 2018 Report Share Posted November 20, 2018 50 minutes ago, Steve in Phoenix said: New machine coming next thursday...thanks to a really great dealer. Excellent. I hope that you'll be pleasantly surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve in Phoenix Posted November 20, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, gee-dub said: Excellent. I hope that you'll be pleasantly surprised. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve in Phoenix Posted November 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 Just got the new machine yesterday. Verified it was set up to spec at the factory, and leveled the tables. I relieved the pressure on the infeed roller siginificantly and still had to push hard on the wood to get it to feed. And...exact same issue...I'm at a complete loss here... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 Now I am just fascinated with what is going on here. The laws of physics are no different in your shop than they are in mine. Although my rollers are backed way off the planer still has a grip like an alligator and no way could you stop a board from feeding. How magnified are those photos? Can you put a penny down or something for scale please? I wish you were closer. I would love to drop in and check this out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve in Phoenix Posted November 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 14 minutes ago, gee-dub said: Now I am just fascinated with what is going on here. The laws of physics are no different in your shop than they are in mine. Although my rollers are backed way off the planer still has a grip like an alligator and no way could you stop a board from feeding. How magnified are those photos? Can you put a penny down or something for scale please? I wish you were closer. I would love to drop in and check this out. Not magnified at all. Ripples are 0.225" apart and several thou deep. Board is 7" wide. I'm just done with Jet. Between this and the 2 pitted jointers (no, I hadn't mentioned that), I feel supremely burned. This is for a new business I'm just getting off the ground. I have to have these 2 machines. On the upside the dealer also carries PM, Oliver, and Laguna. So I still have choices (depending how you view that all machines are probably from the same factory in Taiwan). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve in Phoenix Posted November 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 You're at most around 6 hours away in socal...drop on by lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted November 30, 2018 Report Share Posted November 30, 2018 Hate to beat the dead horse, but if that is a helical head, the feed rollers are adjusted improperly. Grab that manual and go through every step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted December 1, 2018 Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 7 hours ago, Steve in Phoenix said: You're at most around 6 hours away in socal...drop on by lol Just a bit too far for a drop in darn it. I would run the model you next consider at the showroom. A failure to do this led to a bothersome return of a PM drill press. While returning I checked the floor model . . . same problem . Man those things are awkward; drill presses in general, not just PM. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve in Phoenix Posted December 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2018 41 minutes ago, gee-dub said: Just a bit too far for a drop in darn it. I would run the model you next consider at the showroom. A failure to do this led to a bothersome return of a PM drill press. While returning I checked the floor model . . . same problem . Man those things are awkward; drill presses in general, not just PM. Dealer is sending someone over next week. We'll see how it goes. If it's a simple fix, I will swallow my pride and report what I have learned... I was just in CA this past weekend, I should have dropped by... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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