Looking for some advice...

[Askland09]

Hello!

I've officially been bit by the turning bug....pretty hard.  My YouTube recommendations is nothing but turning videos at this point.  However I'm kind of stuck on a couple things.  

1. I have a pretty basic tools set at this time. I bought the Steelex 6 piece set that comes with the case because the gentleman at the Woodsmith Store told me it would get me off in the right direction, and it definitely has.  I've turned some random....things?....is what I would call them.  Basically just practice pieces, but with reading and watching videos I do not think I have the correct tooling for what I actually want to do, which is bowls and vases. I do have a chuck with 50mm jaws and a screw chuck. Now comes the question.  What grinds/sizes of gouges do the turner's here like/recommend?  I know there isn't a solid "its the only way" answer to this question, but I'm looking for general consensus.   

2. I have the capability of sharpening however...are the Raptor guides really worth it?  I know they produce the same angle and what not but if the grinder is going to be very specific just for turning tools and if I mark on the Wolverine guide itself, are the raptor set-ups necessary?

3. I'm left handed, meaning I hold the handle of all my tools with my left hand and every person I'm seeing/reading about does it almost exclusively right handed.  And a limitation to our lathe is that it does not have a reverse.  So basically my stance for some things is extremely awkward/limiting.  Should I just learn to use the tools with my right hand?

Apologies for the long post but I'm trying to really dive into this rabbit hole because I know potential of this type of work and really, really, enjoy turning so far.  Also, if it matters for any of the above the lathe has a 17" swing and a 46" bed length with a 2hp motor.

Cheers!

Luke

[wtnhighlander]

This may be worthless advice, since I have barely turned anything at all, but maybe it is an observation worth considering. Since turning involves very little of the fine dexterity of the hands, and more control from the shoulders and elbows, it may be easier to switch hands than you realize.

[Coop]

On 3/20/2022 at 9:36 PM, wtnhighlander said:

 it may be easier to switch hands than you realize.

Not so sure? I’m right handed and if I had to pick my nose, wipe my butt or tee off left handed, I’d be an invalid! 

[JohnG]

I'm certainly still in the novice turner category at best, but here are my thoughts-

1. Don't try to turn a bowl blank with a spindle gouge! It's terrifying. It took me too many pairs of shorts to figure out that they are not the same.

2. Raptor setup guides are not necessary.

3. Sorry, no advice for you here.

I'd strongly recommend the TWW Guild project "Bowl Turning" with Ashley Harwood if you can spare the money. It's very helpful in the bowl turning process, techniques, tool types, and sharpening (as I recall she just uses a flat tool rest with some marks on it to sharpen her gouges). The push cut technique she uses might be manageable to learn wrong-handed. Very good resource and enjoyable to watch.

 

[Chestnut]

11 hours ago, Askland09 said:

I'm left handed, meaning I hold the handle of all my tools with my left hand and every person I'm seeing/reading about does it almost exclusively right handed.  And a limitation to our lathe is that it does not have a reverse.  So basically my stance for some things is extremely awkward/limiting.  Should I just learn to use the tools with my right hand?

Yeah, turning in reverse is a recipe for disaster as Mark pointed out to me in another thread. The chucks are all designed and threaded to spin CCW and reversing that would unscrew them over time and put your project part in your lap in a hurry.

I think lathes are just the king of awkward stances for certain things. Even right handed i can say that's defiantly true.

[Askland09]

On 3/20/2022 at 11:41 PM, JohnG said:

Don't try to turn a bowl blank with a spindle gouge!

+1 to this for sure.  The only thing I've seen any turners use a spindle gouge for is to put a slight dovetail on the tenons they're going to throw in the chuck.  Also going through the videos I'm seeing people draw red or black lines down the center of the flutes just for the fact that if they can see any portion of the line while cutting they're in danger. 

[Gary Beasley]

You do need a bowl gouge if you are intent on doing bowls though some people get by with scrapers. Learning on a slicing tool like a gouge will make any operation easier to deal with.

This biggest factor in bowl turning is in grain direction. Spindle turning the grain is for the most part parallel to the lathe bed and you are cutting on the outside. 
Side grain bowls, the most common form done, has the grain perpendicular to the bed and the grain is swapping from end to side grain twice a revolution. Spindle and roughing gouges are not built beefy enough to handle this even if they were sharpened with a suitable profile to cut the end grain part.

My favorite gouge is a half inch Sorby with a 40/40 grind on it that will handle everything except hollowing end grain and deep forms. Once you have a decent tool sharpened with good grind angles its going to be much easier to learn to turn. Trying to use the wrong tools will just create bad habits you will have to unlearn as you progress.

[Mark J]

You've gotten good advice above.  I'll add my 2 cents.  

 

1. I have a pretty basic tools set at this time. I bought the Steelex 6 piece set that comes with the case because the gentleman at the Woodsmith Store told me it would get me off in the right direction, and it definitely has.  .... I do not think I have the correct tooling for what I actually want to do, which is bowls and vases. .... What grinds/sizes of gouges do the turner's here like/recommend?  

Don't shoot for a vase or hollow form until you are more comfortable with bowls. 

The Steelex set has handles that are a good bit shorter than many other tools.  That is not necessarily a bad thing, but an observation.  See if you can get a hold of a printed catalogue from Craft Supply.  They have a nice section in the first few pages describing different tools, and you can flip the pages and see the myriad of tools that will be sucking up your money in the days to come.  https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/

There are several different ways to form the cutting edge of a bowl gouge and there are many ardent supporters of each, and then there are people that grind their tools somewhere in between the different styles.  Unfortunately, it ends up being confusing.  Grinds seem to be loosely grouped around a nose angel of 40, 60 or 80 degrees.  The 80* grind (which is probably what your Steelex had out of the box) is best for the bottom of the bowl and is often referred to as a BOB gouge. (You can certainly re-grind your Steelex if you choose).  The 40* or 60* nose angles are more effective at forming the sidewalls of a bowl, at least down to the transition, and with a shallower curve you can go all the way. 

The best known 40* grind is Stuart Batty's 40/40 grind (look up his videos).  Ashley Harwood trained with Stuart and is also a devote of the 40/40, so she is another resource.  The 40/40 is ground done on a platform without a jig, so it takes some practice to learn.  The Vector sharpening fixture from Hannes Tools is designed to assist in producing the hat maker's grind (yes wooden hats are a "thing").  With a 40* nose angle this is reported to be as close to the 40/40 as you can get with a jig.  

The best known 60* grind is Irish grind which was popularized by the David Ellsworth, and hence is known on this side of Atlantic as the Ellsworth grind.   This is easy to form using a variety of jigs including one David sells as well as the the Varigrind-Wolverine combo.  This grind has very long wings, but you can put a 60* nose angle on a gouge and keep the wings shorter, which is the classic 60* grind.  

There is no consensus on what's best.  If you have the luxury of more than one gouge you can try different grinds back to back.  I think I might sort of like the Ellsworth better, but I have more experience with it, so my jury is still out.

2. I have the capability of sharpening however...are the Raptor guides really worth it?  I know they produce the same angle and what not but if the grinder is going to be very specific just for turning tools and if I mark on the Wolverine guide itself, are the raptor set-ups necessary?

Repeatability is important.  That said, I'm not that fond of the Raptor idea because it removes too many of the degrees of freedom in determining the grind.  For example, wing length, the Raptor is set up for one grind at that nose angle and there's no making the wings longer or shorter.  Please note that the Wolverine and Varigrind go together, neither is a lot of use without the other.  There is the original Varigrind and the Varigrind 2, never achieved popularity, and again limits some degrees of freedom.  There are many other sharpening jigs/fixtures out there.  If you are looking for something with some, but fewer, "settings", the Ron Brown's Best set up is worth a look.  

3. I'm left handed...

You should try to learn to turn with either hand regardless if you are right or left handed.  There's just times when you have to use your non-dominant hand to make the cut.  

 

@Askland09, some hands on mentoring would really be valuable and there may be other turners in your area who could do it. Going to a one week class at the Marc Adams School of Woodworking was a blast for me, and they frequently have turning classes (admittedly $$).  Live demonstrations are also a big help.  Turn On Chicago is regional symposium that will be this July, and the AAW symposium in Chattanooga is this June.  Both/either would be worth your time if the budget allows.  Lastly, consider joining the AAW forum.  I don't believe you have to be an AAW member, so it's free.  https://www.aawforum.org  Lots of great information there and beginners are more than welcome.  

[Askland09]

On 3/21/2022 at 11:53 AM, Mark J said:

I'll add my 2 cents. 

2 cents?!? More like 50 cents!  And all of it is much much appreciated.  

On 3/21/2022 at 11:53 AM, Mark J said:

Don't shoot for a vase or hollow form until you are more comfortable with bowls.

This was absolutely the goal I was shooting for.  I know that starting with a large hollow vessel is definitely not advised.  I have recently come into about 40 or 50 various blanks that I plan on making into various different bowls before I start getting into medium/small hollow vessels.  

 

As for grinds on the tools I was planning on getting 3 different gouges/grinds.  The main work horse was going to be a 1/2",  55* swept back Irish grind with the heel being ground down slightly as well.  Then my roughing grind was going to be a 5/8", 40/40 grind. Lastly having a micro bevel 60-65* bottoming tool but I'm unsure on what the flute size should be (1/2"? 5/8"?).  And finally I would have a standard 45* fingernail grind that was 3/8" for detail work.  I'm kind of wanting to get all of these so I can figure out "what fits best". 

On 3/21/2022 at 11:53 AM, Mark J said:

There is the original Varigrind and the Varigrind 2

I planned on getting the Varigrind 2 to start out with since I'm new to sharpening turning tools.  They just didn't have one there when I was at the store grabbing the Wolverine guide but a truck was coming in with a few this week. 

In regards to education and videos I've had a ton of luck watching the Craft Supplies videos/tutorials online and also Kent from Turnabowl.com's videos have been exceptionally helpful.  I would love to take a class but my day job in healthcare limits the amount of time I can get off (staff shortages, Covid, etc, etc). 

Again, thank you all for the advise and posts.  Its a great community we have here on the forums. 

Cheers!

Luke