rodger. Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 I was out building in the garage today, and had to brave the cold weather to do some router work. The garage is insulated (walls and ceiling), but only a small overhead shop heater is in there (electric). I have a rather large garage (2.5 car), so 1/2 is the shop and the other 1/2 is for the car. Anyways, I also have a good sized unfinished basement. This time of year, I always think about what it would be like to move my shop to the basement. The humidity is controlled, the temperature is controlled, lots of power, could have water if I wanted, etc. The pros seem good: -space is already contolled for heat and humidity -running water -lots of space -all year comfort (without increased cost) I realize there are downsides as well: -hard to get machines and lumber down the stairs (no walkout, and only a single door entry) -limited natural light -shorter ceilings (garage is 10 feet, basement is 8 feet) -DUST (my biggest concern - an air scrubber would be needed. I have a nice DC now) -noise The shop would get a lot more use if it was comfortable all year. I dunno, though. What do you guys think? Will I regret the move? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKWoodworking Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 I have a garage shop now and truly miss my basement shops that I have had before. The biggest thing is climate control, whether too hot or too cold. In the spring and fall a Garage Shop is amazing, but the basement is better all year long. The CON of not having an outside entrance might be a problem. Both of my basement shops had outside access. Dust is another concern, but if you have a filter and dust collector you should be fine. Noise isnt as much of a problem for you as it is for the other people in the house, get some ear muffs and you will be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKWoodworking Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Another option is to provide a different source of heat for the garage, but that can get expensive due to the loss of heat when opening the garage door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilburpan Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 I think you did a great job of identifying the pros and cons of a basement shop. My shop is in the basement as well, and I agree with every point except for the noise issue. For whatever reason, I don't get too much noise in the house above where my shop is. I'm not sure why. Our kitchen is above the shop, so it may be that it's a room that isn't too noise sensitive, unlike, say, our living room. The previous owners of our house also laid down a laminate hardwood floor directly on top of the previous floor, so that may help, too. Having said all that, I wouldn't ever think of moving my shop from my basement to the garage. If access is an issue, look into how much it would be to install a Bilco door or something similar. It will be completely worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombarde16 Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Dust can be countered a bit more easily than finishing vapors. Does the basement have windows that can be fitted with fans of some sort? Otherwise, plan on schlepping projects upstairs and outside for finishing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfitz Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Pug, there is another thread on dealing with finishing odors I have a basement shop, and although I would like to use the garage for the increased space, the climate issues (humidity in summer, cold in winter) make me content to stay in the basement. The ceiling height is limiting, but you learn to work around it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKWoodworking Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 The furniture is going to have to go upstairs at some point anyway, isn't it? So, you can still finish in your garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombarde16 Posted February 10, 2012 Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 The furniture is going to have to go upstairs at some point anyway, isn't it? So, you can still finish in your garage. True. But sometimes pre-finishing happens in the middle of a project, meaning that you could potentially be taking a project up and down a time or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted February 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2012 Thanks for the replies guys. I'm still thinking about the move, but I'm not ready to decide yet. Keep the opinions coming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mn pete Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 I'd been a garage woodworker for years too. Our new place here in CO doesn't allow that, so I'm setting up now in the basement. You can see all my updates at http://secondwindwor...p.blogspot.com/ I'm still in the problem solving stages for things like noise and dust too. I'm already grateful to be in the basement though. There is no way I could work very long in the garage shop we had back in MN, even with the $$$ electric heater we had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 By now, you've probably got your mind set on what you're gonna do, but I'll do my best to throw a wrench in it: I do all my noisy, messy power tool work in the garage, and all my hand tool work, assembly, and finishing in the basement (with the exception of a small compressor for my brad nailer and a small drill press in the basement). I like it a lot! Minimal mess and noise in the house, and there are very dew dust nibs in the air to worry about during finishing. True, there are times when I have to bring a piece back and forth between the two, but with careful planning you can minimize that. For me, the benefit of a separate place for messy, noisy work outweighs the inconvenience of the occasional walk across the yard. Plus, you get more room for your milling and dimensioning processes in the garage without a workbench/assembly table, hand tool cabinets, finishing station, etcetera to share the space with (and vice versa in the basement). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CessnaPilotBarry Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 20 years in the basement for me... At least mine is walk-out ground elvel in back, so the toola nd material access issue is mitigated. I have an insulated basement ceiling, and there is noise upstairs, but it's not that bad. My wife is extremely noise sensiitive, she once returned a TV because the voume would not go low enough! She knows when I'm using machines, but as long as she's not trying to sleep, it's OK with the insulation in place and stairway doors closed. The worst offender is my cyclone, as it's a steady hum that seems to travel up the stairwell, like a bass port.. Where you put tools can make a big difference. I don't have a problem at all with dust, but I have hydronic heating. This style of heat does not have forced air ducts. I make a habit of dusting myself off with compressed air before going upstairs, and I sweep or vacuum the stairs regularily. As for finishing... Work out a way to draw basement air outside. I keep the basement at a SLIGHT negative pressure, being wary of chimney down drafting, drawing makeup air from the house above, and she doesn't even know I'm finishing. Without the fan running, I can open a can of latex paint, and within minutes, she knows it on the 2nd floor. It's amazing! FORGET varnishes! The fan is weak enough where I can leave it running overnight. Install a nice CO detector in the basement as an extra defense alerting you to a messed up chimmney drafts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STL Woodguy Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Basement dweller as well. It's actually the only place I can set up as I live in a townhouse and have no garage. It's a really tight fit as not only do I have the shop down there, but the room also has the washer/dryer, some storage as well as the heater to contend with. I also have to watch the noise (neighbors). But I've miraculously made it all work, and still making space improvements. The TOP concern in that space is dust control as I do not want that getting into the air ducts (or the laundry area), so I handle it in several ways. First, I never run the AC/heater when working down there...the basement always remains fairly comfortable in both winter and summer without AC/heat, so it works out well. Second, I have good dust collection at the source with a dust collector, though I need to make improvements to it (new Wynn filter, thein baffle, etc), but it works for my purposes for now. Additionally I just invested in Festool (router / vacuum) and that has made a big difference as well. I have an overhead JET air filtration unit that does an excellent job getting the rest of what I can't get at the source. I also went with a cabinet saw over a contractor due to the way the dust is contained, and that was a wise choice for me. To make a long story short, I have never had any dust get into the upper floors unless I forgot to change my shoes before exiting the shop and track it upstairs. Additionally, very little dust crosses over to the laundry side of the room. The washer/dryer doors always remain closed, and I don't do laundry on shop days and vice versa. Space is a little trickier, I utilized vertical space as much as possible. My bicycle (and other miscellaneous stored things) hangs over the wasted space above the washer and dryer, and other things like step ladders also hang flat on hooks from the ceiling. Shop side, a lumber rack also hangs overhead along the wall (so I'm never directly under it). I used to have a separate router table but decided to make another router table that attaches to the table saw wings, so reclaimed space that way. I built mini-pegboards with magnets on the back which attaches to the base of the table saw, so extra tools (that aren't too heavy) that I need quickly go under there. I'm currently working on an assembly / outfeed table that the planer will go under, and once I finish a rolling pegboard cart (with a lot of vertical height) to store tools and everything else in, I will have no further need for the utility table (which isn't practical at all as an assembly table). I mentioned Festool, and while I thought their 'systainer' things were a gimmicky approach at first, man do they indeed help with space. Love how they stack on top of one another on top of the vacuum, and the vacuum itself stores away very neatly. Once again, utilizing vertical height. The only two bummers about having a basement shop is getting stuff to and from the basement (but certainly not impossible), and the noise...have to be mindful of the neighbors, so I work in shorter spurts. (But they haven't said anything yet.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man of wood Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 <p>I would not have it any other way, the basement is the place for me. The dust does not travel too far. Move,,,,,,, you will love it.</p> <div id="myEventWatcherDiv" style="display:none;"> </div> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim0625 Posted March 4, 2012 Report Share Posted March 4, 2012 Buy a better heater for the shop/garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted March 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 Buy a better heater for the shop/garage. Heating/cooling is quite expensive in my area (like everyones), so I thought I may be able to take advantage of a space I am already paying to condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim0625 Posted March 5, 2012 Report Share Posted March 5, 2012 I see your angle but moving and resetting a shop is in depth. Not to mention shellac fumes, router noise, dust, and carrying materials through the house and then carrying the large pieces you've built OUT of the house. Some guys on the forum have basements and love them. Here in SC there are very little basements - to low, too wet. You could work your air to deal with the fumes and keep a slight negative pressure on the basement. You could insulate the ceiling of the basement well enough to knock off most of the noise. It is quite a quest you are contemplating. Maybe you could just supplement the shop with a wood stove or this heater? I love mine. Keep the temp tolerable and work in a jacket in the colder weather along with a little heat. Having said alllll of that, there is something to be said for walking downstairs in shorts and a T shirt, in the dead of winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jHop Posted March 7, 2012 Report Share Posted March 7, 2012 another option would be to get a set of solar panels to generate extra electricity for the garage. Since it's going to be used for the heat, it does not need to run through your junction box (usually. Double check you local codes before installing.) I currently do not have a basement shop, but had one at the last location. Before that, I was lucky enough to watch as my father had a shop in another house (neighbors house was empty, landlord wanted someone there to make it look lived in periodically) or the garage. I was too young to remember how cold it got, but I remember the snowdrifts between the house and garage were easily 6 feet or more tall. (wind drift.) The basement is nice to have. The garage is nice to have. (Heck, at this point, a shop is nice to have.) I appreciate the basement because I can start when I'm ready, stop when I'm ready, and take a short break without suiting up or locking up. (like, after one too many iced tea to savor the calm air decides it's time to visit the "thinking chamber...") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceHoleInOne Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 I have a basement shop, love it. Yeah the machinery parts sucks.... get them down the stairs is easier. Getting them up the stairs is a little different story. The dust can be an issue, when i get the dust really going. I shut the switch off for a short while on our house furnace so not to spread dust around the house during the winter. But hey woodworking makes dust right. I do vacuum the shop regularly. I made a downdraft table with filters using an old furnace fan and motor, for spray finishing (water-based finishes) small projects in the basement. Use my garage for large pieces. I say go for it....move in the basement. No heating bills in the winter and not sweating your a$$ off in the summer. I pass rough lumber through a basement window that opens. So no stairs to deal with. Sheet goods.....um that is a different story. Low ceiling...you get use to that pretty quick...just takes one time to break an overhead shop light....trust me....you wont do it again! It's my happy place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted March 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 I pass rough lumber through a basement window that opens. That's a good point about rough lumber, why didn't I think of that?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted March 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 another option would be to get a set of solar panels to generate extra electricity for the garage. I like this idea. What type of cost is assosiated with this? Do I need to store the energy somewhere (batteries perhaps)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fah-Fah-Fooey Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 Have you thought about a battery powered heated jacket http://www.tools-plus.com/milwaukee-2331-2x.html, I honestly have no idea if there any good, and I really doubt it would be all that helpful but figured i would mention it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodger. Posted March 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 Have you thought about a battery powered heated jacket http://www.tools-plu...ee-2331-2x.html, I honestly have no idea if there any good, and I really doubt it would be all that helpful but figured i would mention it. I have seen these in various hadware stores. Don't think I would like the bulkiness when working. Thanks for the idea though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fah-Fah-Fooey Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 I like this idea. What type of cost is assosiated with this? Do I need to store the energy somewhere (batteries perhaps)? I believe you can hook up directly to the main power grid, there is some sort of meter that measures how much power you supply to the grid and they let you by this power back for a small fee. Its worth looking into anyway, you might even keep your eyes open for someone in your area that has solar panels as they will be able to give you a better idea of how much it saves them on power as any info from the manufacturer is going to be a best case scenario, like gas mileage for cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Wilsbach Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 I believe you can hook up directly to the main power grid, there is some sort of meter that measures how much power you supply to the grid and they let you by this power back for a small fee. so... you buy all the equipment to generate electricity. hook yourself into "the grid" and supply it with that power... and then you buy it back? that sounds ass backwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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