Basement dust collection

[mnice8]

What's up wood nerds?

Once we moved into our new home I got half of the basement to turn into man town. So 15x25' of workshop awesomeness is slowly but surely coming together.

Built a temporary workbench and the Woodsmith Shop Sliding Cabinet so far. With each project i'm learning more and slowly building up my shop tool collection, but air cleaner and dust collection are next on the list. Any recommendations?

TWW has been a great source of info and ideas and I'm thinking the guild may be a next step as well.

Shop tour to be posted soon and good to hear from everyone.

RB

[PurpLev]

I am dealing with dust collection myself at the moment. I have a 1.5hp 1100DC Jet DC that I am trying to setup in a permanent location and install duct to all the machines. I am using 4" PVC pipes for the duct and have 2 runs at about 20ft each with blast gates at each machine.

having said that - I would have preferred to have a cyclone with a 2 stage filtration that would better protect the DC, and the air in the garage, this also dictates to use 6" pipes as opposed to the 4" I'm using which are not quite enough - although for lack of funds, that is the best I can come up with at the moment and better some than none. a cyclone would also require 220v which is another thing I do not have.

for ambient air filter I have a JDS 2000 which I run periodically to get what the DC didn't get in the air.

what is your budget? setting DC can really become a complex and large expense if done right.

if you have not done so yet, I recommend reading a corner stone writeup on DC by Bill Pentz: http://www.billpentz.com

you could get a smaller DC and move it from machine to machine as the need arises - which would definitely cut on costs, but may be a hassle (personal thing).

regardless of all of that - make sure your DC is running on a separate electric circuit so as not to trip your basement breaker.

[mnice8]

Yeah a cyclone would be awesome, but I think i'm pushing my limits on space. Would it fit under an 8' ceiling?

Overall how are you liking the Jet 1100?

Based on budget and space I'm liking these two, but still have to do a little bit more homework.

PM 1300 canister

Jet 1100 canister

Any thoughts on the canister vs bag filters?

I have seen great reviews for the JDS air cleaner and also the JET

If I can get away ~1k including tubing / blast gates / accessories for the DC and including the air cleaner fits the budget.

Separate circuit is in place already.

For now I also like having the flexibility to move and connect the DC where it is needed, but once most tools are purchased and in place then I'll mount the DC and pipes on the wall.

[John V.]

Have you thought about the smaller Grizzly cyclone that came out a couple of months ago? Check it out here:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Cyclone-D-C-1-1-2-HP-2-Stage/G0703

It is a few bucks more but would definitely fit in your space. JDS also has a great 2 stage unit. Just food for thought.

Cheers

John

[Sac]

Have you thought about the smaller Grizzly cyclone that came out a couple of months ago? Check it out here:

http://www.grizzly.c...P-2-Stage/G0703

It is a few bucks more but would definitely fit in your space. JDS also has a great 2 stage unit. Just food for thought.

Cheers

John

And I would also like to point out that Penn State Industries (PSI) also has a mobile cyclone as well as Onidea Air. I do believe that both of these systems require 220V.

[PurpLev]

the Jet 1100DC kicks ass when the hose is short - it's impressive. but with a full duct the efficiency drops. it's very good for what it is, but if I had the means, and I had to do it over again, I'd opt for a cyclone - although it does push the $$$ up a notch - but in the long run it's better for the DC, and for you.

I would go for canister over bag. in my case I found a used 1100DC with bag, and immediately replaced the bag with a Wynn catrtidge filter which improves air flow, and also filters to a much higher degree (0.2micron)

I've been eyeing the Grizzly cyclone as it would fit my 110 requirement, but if I'm going to spend that much money - I'd rather just get a 'real' 3HP-5HP unit (the clearvue is close enough in cost at a tremendously higher capacity and efficiency) - but since I am limited with 110 at the moment, I'm holding off on that expense - although the first thing I'll be getting once we buy out own place would probably be a big cyclone. the difference though is that I do currently have something that works well enough to keep my going - in your case, you may want to consider that Grizzly that does run on 110. they also have this one, which is no mobile, but costs a bit less, and looks a bit better (in my opinion):

http://www.grizzly.com/products/1-1-2-HP-Cyclone-Dust-Collector/G0443

has a bigger filter = better air flow, and the cyclone cone shape looks more efficient. the specs also point out the same.

[mnice8]

I currently have a dedicated 110 set aside for the DC. John that 2 stage Grizz looks like it may fit the bill nicely! I had kind of ruled out cyclones just because of size and had really only been looking at the portable canister style DCs. This unit would be great because I can start off with keeping the unit portable and then when I finalize the shop duct everything out. I would rather do everything right the first time and I agree for an extra couple hundred this may be worth it. I am going to look for some reviews and put these in the mix to compare.

My max runs would be 10-15' maybe 20' at the most. Would I really be that bad off with the Jet or PM canister systems if set up and blast gated properly?

Thanks to all for suggestions and your replies.

-RB

[Sac]

I currently have a dedicated 110 set aside for the DC. John that 2 stage Grizz looks like it may fit the bill nicely! I had kind of ruled out cyclones just because of size and had really only been looking at the portable canister style DCs. This unit would be great because I can start off with keeping the unit portable and then when I finalize the shop duct everything out. I would rather do everything right the first time and I agree for an extra couple hundred this may be worth it. I am going to look for some reviews and put these in the mix to compare.

My max runs would be 10-15' maybe 20' at the most. Would I really be that bad off with the Jet or PM canister systems if set up and blast gated properly?

Thanks to all for suggestions and your replies.

-RB

Just make sure that your wiring can support that thing. It takes a 30A circuit. That means that you need to have at least 10 gauge running from the outlet to the panel.

[John V.]

You would be fine with any 110v setup to start but you mentioned that you wanted a cyclone and had limited height in your shop, so I thought it might fit the bill. The other Grizzly that Purplev mentioned is a good deal but the stand is not part of the base price as is the other one and is taller too. The 1st Grizzly is only 65" tall. I would recommend checking every manufacturer out before you decide...you may find a surprise or three.

Good luck

[PurpLev]

My max runs would be 10-15' maybe 20' at the most. Would I really be that bad off with the Jet or PM canister systems if set up and blast gated properly?

Thanks to all for suggestions and your replies.

-RB

my current setup has 20' runs (2) and the Jet is adequate - but it really should be better. a cyclone (2 stage) will keep the filters unclogged so the air flow will stay constant, whereas the canister DCs will drop the airflow once the fliters/bags start filling up. another thing about the 2 stage is that the large debris/chips/parts do not hit the impeller which could damage it over time otherwise. not to mention it's easier to empty the bin of a cyclone than a bag of a 1 stage DC.

the 1st cyclone linked although mobile and may fit the bill at first is not as efficient and capable as the 2nd one posted which although does not come with the stand - can be hung and kept stationary if you duct the shop - in the long run will give you better performance and results = less stuff in the air that you breath.

[John V.]

Ok. Fair enough ... whatever works or you can actually afford.

the 1st cyclone linked although mobile and may fit the bill at first is not as efficient and capable as the 2nd one posted which although does not come with the stand - can be hung and kept stationary if you duct the shop - in the long run will give you better performance and results = less stuff in the air that you breath.

[PurpLev]

Ok. Fair enough ... whatever works or you can actually afford.

It's all fair and square - just different features - mobility vs. filteration efficiency. It really depends on the application, personally since both are capable cyclones - I'd probably want to keep it stationary and duct all machines - in which case, I'd go with the better filtering machine, but if someone needs it to b e mobile - obviously the other one would be a better choice.

was not trying to suggest other cyclone/suggestion was no good - just pointing out the differences

[muddlermike]

before you buy anything, I would suggest picking up a copy of Sandor Nagyszalanczy's "woodshop dust control"...

http://www.amazon.com/Woodshop-Dust-Control-Sandor-Nagyszalanczy/dp/1561584991/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1284242250&sr=1-1

...just so you get a good idea of what your needs are. I would also suggest you look at NO smaller than 1.5hp systems, although the average shop would always do better with 2hp and up. I have a 1hp Penn State Industries D/C with double 1 micron bags that works excellent, but it is only good enough for attaching to individual tools and not for setting up a duct system. There are a number of guys that have the 2hp harbor freight model that runs on 110v and they all love theirs.

[Vic]

Rick LoDico has a really short cyclone in his basement shop. I think it's a Penn State, but not sure. I seem to remember it being blue? Hopefully, he'll see this thread and weigh in. To check you can always PM him.

[Beechwood Chip]

I'm planning to use a Thien separator instead of a cyclone in my basement shop. Much smaller and much less expensive.

I'm also planning to vent outside the way that Marc did in his first shop. I have a source of outside replacement air. I considered feeding the output from the separator into a HEPA filter, but I figure that blowing the dust out one side of the house and sucking fresh air in from the other side is a better solution. With the separator there shouldn't be much visible dust in the exhaust, and I'm a weekend warrior, so I don't expect the neighbors will mind. It's like a dryer vent, just bigger and louder, and has wood dust instead of lint.

Marc, if you are reading, I know you stopped venting outside when you moved, because of the neighbors. Can you say more about that?

[Mike P.]

I am using a Thien separator. It is a good short term solution, obviously not as good as a cyclone. But you can keep tweaking it until it becomes quite efficient. It should be used with a Wynn filter, which I have not purchased yet. But I use a respirator, and JDS air cleaner. All of that combined still cost less than a cyclone. But I guess working in a basement you would want to be as efficient as possible.

[DannyBoy]

I've been running the Jet 1100 with 4" pvc and the Jet AFS 1000 in my basement for about a year... She has been much happier since my investment because there is much less dust on her laundry. Win win situation and I highly recommend both units.

[DeanJackson]

What's up wood nerds?

Once we moved into our new home I got half of the basement to turn into man town. So 15x25' of workshop awesomeness is slowly but surely coming together.

Built a temporary workbench and the Woodsmith Shop Sliding Cabinet so far. With each project i'm learning more and slowly building up my shop tool collection, but air cleaner and dust collection are next on the list. Any recommendations?

I did this about two years ago. I've not yet been unhappy with the $175 grizzly 1hp collector, http://www.grizzly.com/products/1-HP-Dust-Collector/G8027 I replaced the filter with the higher quality one. That dust collector sits in the next room, and I used hose to run it through the wall into my shop. Once it's in my shop, I used the Rockler expandable dust collector hose, and their handle/floor sweep package. The expandable hose collapses down to 4', expands out to 24' if you pull on it, and seems pretty damn durable. That allows me to leave the noisy collector in the next room, and have one hose I can connect to anything. When aggressively running a planer, yeah, I wish I'd stepped up to the 1.5 hp $250 model. I can't speak for the cyclonic ones, but I've never had an issue with losing suction yet, and been through at least 50 trash bags of sawdust and shavings.

(hose: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=21316)

(attachments: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=20375)

I bought the lowest-end Jet air filter (AFS 450?), and regretted it; they stopped selling it, and more importantly to me, stopped selling filters! If I had a choice of upgrading to a mid-size one of these or a larger dust collector, I'd upgrade to a mid-size air filter. They're awesome, once you have basic dust collection taken care of.

As the budget-man's solution, I'd still go with the $250 Grizzly over the $175 one... but I'd simply add my own cyclonic pre-filter before the actual dust collection. http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=1515

[Chester]

I built and installed my system last winter. It is the best improvement I have yet done in the shop. But mine is all "down-draft." I am on the second floor of the barn and the DC is downstairs. This really helps the pulling ability of my 1.5hp 110v DC. In my shop, you hardly even notice the ducting. It is all behind and down. I used all metal and found it very easy to work with ... and ran 6" all the way except for final hook-ups. The most expensive part(s) were the 6" laterals (6-6-6's and 6-4-6's). I would estimate that the total parts cost for the job was about 3-times the cost of the DC. If you were to run 4" ducting everywhere, you could get by with much less expensive plastic laterals (Peachtree Woodworking) but I am not sure my 1.5hp unit would have done the job at 4". I too, am power-challenged and did not have a 220V circuit available for one of the larger DC units. Take a look ... http://woodtalkonline.com/gallery/album/486/229-dust-collector-install/

http://woodtalkonline.com/blog/66/entry-501-dust-collection/

Chester

[Chester]

Many of us have struggled with the issue of dust collection, especially from our machinery. Last winter, I installed a whole-shop DC system and learned a lot. It appears that the main issues are:

• Whether your shop is in any part of your house
  
• Size of your shop and distance from DC
  
• Power availability (110v ... 220V ... amperage of circuit)
  
• Space for installation
  
• Whole-shop stationary system vs. portable DC
  
• Budget
  
  And not necessarily in that order!
  
  What these factors yield are the following options:
  
  • 1HP, 110V portable unit (on wheels) ... 1-stage
    
  • 1.5HP, 110V semi-portable unit ... some 1-stage and some cyclone
    
  • 2hp, 110V (high amperage) ... some 1-stage and some cyclone
    
  • 2hp, 220V ... some 1-stage and some cyclone
    
  • 3-5HP, 220V cyclones
    

  If you really look at the factors, your situation will clearly yield your choice of DC. If you can, it is most ideal to make a choice that will allow (now or later) for you to power the ductwork for a whole-shop DC system. If you want to run ductwork to all of your tools, plan on spending 2-3 times the cost of your DC ($500 to $800) for the ductwork and connection parts (if done in metal). Some parts, like straight pipe, are very cheap and some parts, like laterals and flexible hose, can be on the pricey side.

  Let me know if you need any help or references for parts.

  http://woodtalkonline.com/index.php?app=gallery&module=user&section=user&user=486

  Chester

[Sac]

Rick LoDico has a really short cyclone in his basement shop. I think it's a Penn State, but not sure. I seem to remember it being blue? Hopefully, he'll see this thread and weigh in. To check you can always PM him.

If it is blue, then it is probably the JDS... I hear it is a good unit. PSI has a new portable cyclone. Not sure what kind of reviews it has gotten..

[harmsdph]

Bob,

I'm late to this post, you may have already installed a system that works. My recommendation is keep it simple, a dust collector with possibly a trash can separator and a couple of runs is all you should need.

check out mine here: http://www.justsquareenough.com/2010/11/how-i-do-it-dust-collection.html

also, Matt of Matt's Basement Workshop just did a tour of his shop, he has a 1hp 110v dust collector (grizzly) and a single run with blast gates that he hooks up as need. post: http://mattsbasementworkshop.com/446-shop-tour/#content

[klousiajp@gmail.com]

I may be late as well but I'll throw in my two cents. In the last month or so this topic seems to have come up a lot. I bought the Delta 50-760 a month or so ago and so far so good. It is definitely working a lot better than the shop vac I was rolling around before.

After I bought it there were a few things I did:

1. Power: I ended up installing a few new 20 amp circuits in the basement shop. This was long overdue and the DC was the really the thing that pushed me over the edge. I couldn't run the DC and the TS at the same time so I was forced to get off my duff and just do it.

2. Filter: I got the Delta because it came standard with the 1 micron bag. I've seen a lot of different comments about what is needed for safe filtering but the 1 micron seems to be the best option, and since it came standard I don't need to get the Wynn immediately (though that is the plan).

3. Thien/Cyclone: You'll hear a lot about how everyone wants a second stage and I'm no different. I just built the Thien this weekend and am already impressed. The Delta came with a Y connector that converted the 5 inch intake to two 4 inch intakes. I only use one flex that I move between my machines since I don't have space to really have multiple machines setup at once. I found that the Y connector really killed the performance which suprised me a bit. The Thien is really simple and seems to do a heck of a good job. I emptied the bag into the trash can and ran a bunch of stuff through and basically have nothing in the bag.

Overall, a DC is a necessary addition. I really like the Delta (it's on wheels and the seperator fits nicely in the cart with the DC) and seems to have enough power to get the vast majority of the chips/dust that I produce.

Good luck.