Please Help A Newbie Build His Norm Abrams Inspired "Ultimate Router Table"

[TheWoodShouter]

So I'm not sure where this leaves me, am I back to having to know the corner radius, or should I plan on a 1/4" bit. For what it's worth, the corner radius of the Kreg plate was well published (3/4"), and making the corners was addressed in their intructions, so I would have thought this would be something someone would know. The corners on the Incra *look* tighter than the Kreg corners in pictures, but how can I know for sure, shoulda contact Incra/JessEm?

Thanks guys!!

-TWS

[Dan S]

So I'm not sure where this leaves me, am I back to having to know the corner radius, or should I plan on a 1/4" bit.

Either will probably work, it really comes down to what you want to do.

but how can I know for sure, shoulda contact Incra/JessEm?

Personally, I would just wait for the lift to arrive and then measure it.

[mikem]

Another way to do it.  I used guide bushings when I made my template, and then recess for the plate itself.  The measurements here are critical.  For all operations I used a 1/4" spiral router bit.  Using the plate as a guide (I actually made a copy of the plate out of 1/2" mdf) use a 1/2" OD guide bushing to create the template.  This took a couple passes to make the complete through cut.  Router direction is key here, make sure you are moving the it in a counter clock wise direction.  This will help keep the guide against the plate.  

 

To make the recess, I switched the guide busing to a 1" OD.  Then I ran the router along the inside of the template in a clock-wise direction.

 

This will make a pretty good recess for your plate, and will accurately replicate the radius of the plate corners.

 

As always, test on scrap first!

[TheWoodShouter]

Hey guys! Sorry about the lack of updates, but I've been really sick with a cold or flu, plus working and trying to finish some painting in the shop area. As of now, the Inra lift plate was delivered last Friday, but I'm still waiting on all the router bits. I chose to try Whiteside bits, and I have about four ordered, but they were not available for Prime shipping from my favorite online bookstore. I'm hoping they'll be here this week and I can get started on this project in earnest.

 

To kiki - unfortunately no, the lift did not include a template. There is one available, but it's an additional $25 + shipping, and I'm sorry but I think that's a little expensive for an mdf template they could make with ease, especially since I just spent over $300 on their lift. I realize *most* people who buy these lifts will be installing them in a ready made table or top, but I think the manufacturer (JessEm/Incra) should be more helpful to those who are building their own tops. They could include the template with the plate, or have an option to have it shipped for a nominal charge to only those that want it to build their own top. Just my two cents on that subject.

 

The corner radius of my Incra lift plate does seem to be 3/4" like the Kreg plate I returned. I do have a forstner bit set, and am strongly leaning towards using a 1-1/2" bit to make the corners of the recess for my plate. I plan on trying a few ideas out on scrap and see what works best for me.

 

To MikeM - I have read about using the bearing guides and the method you describe, I don't have a set of guides yet, but would be willing to get them. In the end I think I'll make some test routes on some scrap, and get a feel for the method I would be most comfortable with.

 

To Dan S - I appreciate the tips you have on your website detailing this procedure, and I like the very professional looking end result you achieved. I will likely try your method to see if I can get the same results, especially on the inner or through rout. I want to have a clean, custom fit look, with as much support for the lift as possible.

 

OK. router bits are on order, and hopefully we'll be making some real progress on this project soon. Thanks again for all the help; please stay tuned!

 

-TheWoodShouter

[TheWoodShouter]

Hey guys!

 

I'm sorry about the lack of recent updates, but despite having been quite sick with some kind of nasty cold or flu, I do now have some progress, and one minor set back, to report. First, the router bits finally arrived on Thursday, along with my combo miter/T-track, some drawer slides, and a few other things. While I've been waiting, I managed to get the floor in my little shop area painted, which you can read about in my other long, boring post if you're inclined. I've also gone through the setup on my table saw again, and I think I've got it tuned up quite well. I built a basic cross cut sled that I thought would be helpful in general, and specifically for cutting the parts for the carcass of the router table here. I'm so far pretty happy with the way the saw and sled are performing, and I'm now ready to get started on the router table in earnest.

 

So I got started on the router table top by first cutting three pieces of MDF a little oversized at 37" x 25". I glued the three pieces together using only glue and weight for clamping force, and the glue up went just fine, I'm my opinion; I have no doubt that just glue will hold the pieces together just fine. The next step was to trim the laminated piece to size, and here's where I ran into some trouble. I hadn't counted on how massive and heavy the piece would be, and I had some trouble running it through my table saw. In the end, I think one length-wise rip and the two sides were cut perfectly, and the two front corners seem dead-nuts true, but the back length-wise side did not cut perfectly straight, and consequently my back two corners are a little out of square. That's not good enough for me for this project, so I want to get some more MDF and try again from the start.

 

The problem I had, I believe, was that when I glued up the three pieces of MDF, their edges were not quite perfectly aligned. This was expected, which is why I'm gluing first, then trimming to the finished size, but I think the problem was I could not get a nice, straight reference edge to ride along the table saw's fence. This piece is way too long to fit in my new table saw sled, so unless I make a sled or jig or something specific to this project, the best way I could think of to rip the blank to size was simply by running it through the table saw using the fence. To this end, I tried to "nibble" off a little bit of material over multiple passes in an effort to "sneak up" on the final dimensions I wanted (34-1/2" x 24-1/2"). This didn't work so well because when the blade only took off a sliver of material I noticed the blade was prone to deflecting. But, when I tried to take off even more material the blade would bind because the reference edge was not true. I don't know if I'm explaining myself as well as I could be here, but needless to say I need to figure out a better way to rip the blank to size. For now I've decided to remake the top so it comes out right, and I will save this first trial and cut it down and use it as the top to a drill press cart I'm also working on.

 

So I'm on my way to the local big box store to grab some more MDF right now, I want to get it rough cut and glued up so I can try again to make this top. My ideas to solve my problem would be to:

 

• Cut the whole thing even an inch or two bigger all around then I had done before. Although this makes the blank even heavier and bulkier, it gives me more material to cut off, which I think will help with the blade deflection problem. As far as I can tell, I just need to make one good cut along the length that's perfectly true to itself, and then use that side as my reference edge against my fence to complete the other side. (edit: the more I think about it, the more I think this is the easiest answer. I think I wasn't really thinking when I made my oversize width 25" knowing I'd have to trim it to 24-1/2". I think I'm going to try again and make it 26" or 27" wide to start with, and then I think I won't have the blade deflection problem I saw previously.)

 

• I thought I could cut just one of the three pieces about 1/4"-1/2" longer in width, and glue it up such that the one piece with the extra length could be used as the reference edge when ripping. My plan was to cut the MDF such that I used a factory edge as my longer piece, which should provide me a nice, true reference edge to work off of. I would make one pass using that factory edge, then turn the piece and rip the other edge working off the newly cut and hopefully true edge I just made.

 

• Last, I thought I could use some combination of a router with a pattern and/or template bits to either cut the whole thing to size, or at least trim one long side perfectly true so it will ride easily against the table saw fence. Or I could possibly even use a circular saw against a fence, and if there was a little material it didn't remove at the bottom I could finish that with a router and flush trim bit. Something like this would work I'm sure, and there's a couple ways I can think of to arrange this.

 

Does anyone have any suggestions for trimming my top blank to final size? Dan S, if you're still paying attention, how did you do it?

 

Thanks in advance for all the help!

 

-TheWoodShouter

[Eric.]

Make your first long cut with a circular saw and a straight edge...that will give you a straight reference so you can rip the other side on the table saw.  Then square the other two sides with your crosscut sled, or with the circular saw and straight edge if your sled isn't big enough.

 

Don't spend your money on more MDF dude...just cut the table you've already built to slightly smaller dimensions...who cares if it's 1/4" smaller than originally planned?

[TheWoodShouter]

Make your first long cut with a circular saw and a straight edge...that will give you a straight reference so you can rip the other side on the table saw.  Then square the other two sides with your crosscut sled, or with the circular saw and straight edge if your sled isn't big enough.

 

Don't spend your money on more MDF dude...just cut the table you've already built to slightly smaller dimensions...who cares if it's 1/4" smaller than originally planned?

Hey buddy! I thought about this too, and may take another shot at trimming just that one edge. If I can trim just a 1/4" or so off I could live with that and move on, but I one thing I liked was the size of this table, and I don't want my top to be much smaller than this. Believe me I'm far from rich, and I'm spending more than I predicted on this project, but the cost of the MDF isn't too great if I have to redo the top, and I really can use what I have on the drill press cart I need anyway so it's not all waste. Let me see if I can make one more pass through the saw to straighten out the front edge, and if not I'll just start over.

 

Thanks for the help, please stay tuned!

 

-TWS

[TheWoodShouter]

OK, I took another couple tries at cutting my top, and I'm still not getting it right, so clearly I must be doing something wrong. I tried to run it through the table saw again, and wasn't satisfied. I tried to use a router and a straight edge like a pseudo jointer, and doing it this way the top still didn't turn out square. And I tried yet another time to run it through the table saw, and still not perfectly square, in fact I've now made it worse and shorter, lol! I must be measuring or setting up my fence wrong, but I can't quite figure out where I'm going wrong.

 

So, I'm pretty sure I'm going to start over on a new top so I can get it right and the size I wanted originally. The current top I will continue to work on to get this process right, and then I'll use it as the top for the drill press cart I'm also planing to build; no big loss there. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get this top totally square all around? It's too long to fit in the cross cut sled I just built, though it does fit in the other orientation, and that seemed to work well to cut the sides. I'm now considering building a simple but larger sled to rip the router table top, so that's one idea.

 

I swear, I'm using a trusted square it's telling me that the front two corners are damn near dead nuts square. But no mater what I do I can't seem to get the back long side cut so the back corners are also totally square. As of now it seems like three corners are pretty much perfect, but the one corner in the back is definitely not square, if that's even possible. Can anyone help me with this step? Your help would be greatly appreciated!

 

-TWS

[Tpt life]

Table saw should give you parallel faces. Check that to verify your saw is ok. This is one step.

[wdwerker]

I make one layer oversized. Check for a perfectly square corner before glue up and mark it clearly. Glue it all up with only 2 edges overhanging, the square corner sticking out . When it is dry run the overhanging corner against the fence to cut the opposite sides . Check everything closely. Sharp blade, square to the table, fence parallel etc is assumed.

Cut, check repeat etc and sneak up on the exact size.

[Eric.]

Just curious...why does it even matter if it's not perfectly square? 

[TheWoodShouter]

Thanks guys, but I think I've got it now :-) I'm not sure why I was struggling so much with this step, but I think the culprit was that my front facing edge that I thought was perfectly true was not. In the end, I used a router with a straight edge like a jointer, first with a top bearing bit, flipped the piece and finished with the bottom bearing bit. I then took that nice, clean edge and clamped that in place with bar clamps against the back fence on my sled, and re-cut the two sides. I finished by running the "jointed" edge against the fence on my saw, and that seemed to do it - nice and square at all four corners. And not soon enough for me, I was really pulling my hair out there! I assure you guys I'm a newb, but I can cut a straight line! But part of the issue here is the mass of the piece is a lot to handle, it puts a lot of stress and force on the saw blade, but it helps a lot when you're working off a straight edge ;-)

 

To kiki - you know, it probably didn't matter if this top was as nearly perfect as I was trying to get it, and in the past I would have just pushed on, but I'm really trying to take my time and learn how to do things correctly. I'm basically trying to go from hack to semi-capable amateur, and with this project I'm all about taking my time and learning to do things right. But strictly peaking, it shouldn't have impacted the functionality of the table, just my pride ;-) 

 

OK, so as I said I am planning on gluing up another three layer blank tonight and staring over on the top, and then I think I'm going to attack this one the same way using my router to "joint" and edge, and then working everything else from that edge. After that I'm going to wrap the top in some nice maple I picked up today. For this step Norm uses biscuits, but since I don't have a plate joiner, I'm considering just gluing and clamping the hardwood edging to the sides of the top. I plan to make the edging just a little proud of the top and bottom surface of the table top, and then using my router and flush trim bit to make the hardwood edging perfectly flat to the top. Does this seem like a plan?

 

I will also be moving forward on trying to make some templates to cut the recess in the table top for the Incra lift plate..... And I'm sure I'll have LOTS of questions about this step, so please stand by folks ;-)

 

Thanks again for everyone's help! I really appreciate the fast replies, and all the advice!

 

-TWS

[wdwerker]

Test your template on scrap first ! It is worth the time and effort.

[TheWoodShouter]

Test your template on scrap first ! It is worth the time and effort.

Definitely! Thanks for the tip!

-TWS

[TheWoodShouter]

When it comes to attaching the hardwood edging to the sides of my top, is just glue and clamps OK? I don't have a plate joiner, and I don't know that I really want to go buy one for this project. Any thoughts?

Thanks again!

-TWS

[wdwerker]

Glueing anything to the edge of MDF is gonna need some help. You have a router, cut a groove and use a loose tenon strip. MDF glues to the faces much better than it glues to the edge.

Or you could glue the edgebanding on and then drill holes for dowels and glue them in as reinforcement .

Commercial MDF tops usually have Tee molding around the edges.

[Dan S]

Dan S, if you're still paying attention, how did you do it?

I used a big cross cut sled like this one.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/workshop/article/ultimate-crosscut-sled.aspx

[TheWoodShouter]

Glueing anything to the edge of MDF is gonna need some help. You have a router, cut a groove and use a loose tenon strip. MDF glues to the faces much better than it glues to the edge.

Or you could glue the edgebanding on and then drill holes for dowels and glue them in as reinforcement .

Commercial MDF tops usually have Tee molding around the edges.

OK, it certainly sounds like I need something, so maybe I can beg or borrow a plate joiner. But I have read about using some kind of strip or spline in other posts for other applications. If I went with the tenon strip, how wide dies it have to be? And would I need to get a slot cutting router bit, or can I cut the slots on my table saw safely? I know I can dado a channel in the hardwood striping fairly easily, but the top is a beast, and I'm not sure I can safely run it through the table saw on end.

And if all else fails, the dowels wouldn't be a bad way to go. I could either legitimately use dowels, or I could simply use screws, and then plug the screw holes with dowels. It wouldn't be my favorite look, but it wouldn't look bad if I did the dowels right. If I can find them somewhere, I'd use a darker, contrasting wood for the dowels, I think that would look nice. So that's an option for sure.

I used a big cross cut sled like this one.http://www.finewoodworking.com/workshop/article/ultimate-crosscut-sled.aspx

Thanks buddy! I can see how a sled like that would make ripping the top much easier, and I probably should try to come up with some kind of a large sled, but now I think I can get it done with what I have. The glue is setting up on table top number 2, so we'll soon find out.

Thanks for your help guys!

-TheWoodShouter

[wdwerker]

Slot cutting router bit is the way to go. They make one that cuts a kerf for biscuits .

[wtnhighlander]

If you decide to avoid the loose tenon, use dowels instead if screws. MDF does not hold screws well, especially in the edges.

[TheWoodShouter]

Slot cutting router bit is the way to go. They make one that cuts a kerf for biscuits .

Thanks again for your help! I've been reading about these slot cutting bits, and this is definitely a possibility. If I had to buy something to get through this project, would you think the slot cutting bit is a better investment for the future, or should I bite the bullet and get a plate joiner? I'm pretty sure I've read that biscuits and plate joiners are falling out of fashion since the biscuits can be somewhat problematic and swell, causing a bubble in the surface of the workpiece. And, at least initially the slot cutting bit is cheaper, so I'm kind of leaning that way unless I can think of someone who has a plate joiner I can just borrow quick for this.

 

And if I had a slot cutting router bit, how do I cut the slots in the 3/4" hardwood edging? To be clear, I do not have or have access to a router table right now, which is why I'm building one, and though routing the slot in the sides of the top seems easy enough, what's the best/safest way to rout the corresponding slot in the edging without a router table? If I gang all four pieces of edging together and stand them on their sides (or use some scrap), that might just give me enough support to rest the router on while cutting the slot. Otherwise, I'm back to trying to cut that slot on the table saw. Is there no way to do this whole operation on the table saw? It seems possible to me, and I've done similar things in the past with the TS, but as I said before I'm here to learn the right way to do all this, and I want to be safe, of course. Any thoughts?

 

And then should I cut a spline or tenon strip out of the only hardwood I happen to have on hand, which is maple, or is there a better material for the strip? Or, should I cut a big long slot on each side of the top and edging, and then just use regular biscuits spaced every 6" to 8" or so in the slot?

 

Thanks very much, wdwerker!!

 

-TWS

[wdwerker]

You could cut a pair of slots all the way around your top and glue strips in the slots. Shave all 4 sides just to get them perfectly square and the strips flush with the face of the edges. Then glue the edge strips to the new surface which contains strips of wood for the glue to adhere to better than the sponge like edge of MDF . Long grain to long grain glue joints are very strong.

I wipe glue on the edges of MDF , let it soak in and then apply more to attempt to fill the thirsty sponge. TiteBond 3 dries slower which helps with mulit stage glue ups.

[TheWoodShouter]

You could cut a pair of slots all the way around your top and glue strips in the slots. Shave all 4 sides just to get them perfectly square and the strips flush with the face of the edges. Then glue the edge strips to the new surface which contains strips of wood for the glue to adhere to better than the sponge like edge of MDF . Long grain to long grain glue joints are very strong.

I wipe glue on the edges of MDF , let it soak in and then apply more to attempt to fill the thirsty sponge. TiteBond 3 dries slower which helps with mulit stage glue ups.

I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean. Are you suggesting I add strips to the sides of the MDF top almost like an inlay, and then count on those strips to make a good joint with the hardwood edging? If so, how can I cut that?

 

And in the meantime, I found this router bit set from Whiteside, is this what I'd want if I decided to use the router to cut these slots?

http://www.amazon.com/Whiteside-Router-Bits-1940-Biscuit/dp/B0012JI3X4/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1413119791&sr=8-4&keywords=router+biscuit+bit

 

Thank you very much!

 

-TWS

[wdwerker]

Any time you can use a1/2" shank bit it is always the better choice, but yes that kind of bit will work.

You can cut the strips with your tablesaw or plane some stock down to the right thickness.

Just route the slots like for an inlay. It's a kind of elaborate way to avoid having to buy or borrow a biscuit machine. The swelling issue w biscuits is more from the slot too close to the surface and impatient people not waiting 24 hrs for the glue to dry and the moisture to disperse.

Take the total top thickness minus the width of the 2 slots, divide the remaining distance by 3, that is your distance from the surface to the first slot. Set the router once and cut from both faces.

[TheWoodShouter]

I think I follow you, but I guess what I don't understand is how to cut the groove in the sides of the MDF top. Why can't I do this carefully on the table saw with a dado blade? It seems to me if I'm making my own stripes or splines then I can make then however wide I want, so why can't I make a dado somewhere in the 1/4"-3/4" range, and then fashion a spline to fit that groove. I'm thinking something this thick would offer a lot of purchase for the glue. Is this an option?

 

And I should add that I did remake the top, and the second incantation came out perfectly. Although I know I could have done it with the table saw, and would have done it just the way wdwerker described a few posts back, in the end I opted to use the router. I cut one of the three layers of MDF to the perfect final size on the table saw, and I cut the other two layers about 3/8" larger in length and width. I glued them up so the two bigger pieces would overhang the smaller piece, and then went to town with the router and bearing bits. Knowing this would blow copious amounts of dust everywhere, I did this step outside in the front lawn instead of in the shop. But in the end I have a top that's perfectly square from corner to corner, and is the exact dimensions I wanted originally. So I am officially ready for the edging.

 

And, I will be working on the templates to route the recess for the lift. I did some test trials last night and think I can do this. I'm also willing to get started on the carcass if or when I need to stop working on the top while waiting for a new bit to arrive or whatever.

 

Please keep the suggestions coming, and thanks again for your help!!

 

-TWS