Building a door, Norm Style

[Orbb]

I've gotten the green light from the boss to turn our two-car garage into a proper shop (a massive pin oak has grown a root through the driveway, making the garage inaccessible to vehicular traffic, and we don't want to kill the tree).  I will be removing the garage doors and building up the floor.

 

I plan to replace the garage doors with bi-fold doors that I will build myself, and have been looking around for methods to build them.  I came across this New Yankee Workshop video of Norm building an exterior door:

 

 

For those who don't have 25 minutes to watch the video, Norm mills the rails and stiles and glues them together with floating tenons - no routing of the rails and stiles, just butt joints reinforced with floating tenons.  He then routs a groove into the portions of the rails and stiles where the panels and windows will be and glues in a spline of plywood (around the 9 minute mark).   The panels are then adhered to these splines, resting outside the rails and stiles, as opposed to integrated into the door.   The panels were trimmed out with trim to give them a finished look (with liberal use of the brad nailer, naturally).

 

This method intrigues me because it allows for more than a single panel in the door.  Norm's was two panels, one plywood and one solid wood.  This method would allow me to actually make a sandwhich with foam insulation between plywood panels to add some insulation to the door.

 

Is there a downside to this construction method?

[wdwerker]

Should work.

But remember bifold doors with that kind of size is going to require serious attention to hardware, squareness and mounting to prevent sagging. Commercially available double bifold door units are very expensive for a reason and install needs to be perfect. If the opening is out of square or the floor is not flat a substantial threshold may be needed.

I would use full length 3" piano hinges ( 1 1/2" per leaf ) plus some 2 1/2" screws to the jam (1 1/2 to doors ) . Existing jam is probably not strong enough for your doors to mount to.

I would make the doors thicker and use a full piece of plywood on each side, then add trim to give the panel appearance.

It's going to be a big project think hard and expect surprises.

[Guest]

I can't speak to the construction method, per se.  I will point out that he used genuine mahogany, a straight grained and stable wood.   For a door you need something extremely stable.  Keep that in mind when you pick the lumber for your rails and styles.  I'd use a vertical grain softwood or quartersawn oak/cherry, if not mahogany.  

 

He said he did consult with a door maker and the design in meant to keep water out of the joinery.  I think it is intriguing.  

[rodger.]

I've gotten the green light from the boss to turn our two-car garage into a proper shop (a massive pin oak has grown a root through the driveway, making the garage inaccessible to vehicular traffic, and we don't want to kill the tree).  I will be removing the garage doors and building up the floor.

 

I plan to replace the garage doors with bi-fold doors that I will build myself, and have been looking around for methods to build them.  I came across this New Yankee Workshop video of Norm building an exterior door:

 

For those who don't have 25 minutes to watch the video, Norm mills the rails and stiles and glues them together with floating tenons - no routing of the rails and stiles, just butt joints reinforced with floating tenons.  He then routs a groove into the portions of the rails and stiles where the panels and windows will be and glues in a spline of plywood (around the 9 minute mark).   The panels are then adhered to these splines, resting outside the rails and stiles, as opposed to integrated into the door.   The panels were trimmed out with trim to give them a finished look (with liberal use of the brad nailer, naturally).

 

This method intrigues me because it allows for more than a single panel in the door.  Norm's was two panels, one plywood and one solid wood.  This method would allow me to actually make a sandwhich with foam insulation between plywood panels to add some insulation to the door.

 

Is there a downside to this construction method?

That must be some tree and root! Can we see some pics?

[Orbb]

That must be some tree and root! Can we see some pics?

 

I'll take some when I go home for lunch.

[Orbb]

Here's the tree and the driveway.  The paver area is a new patio; when we decided that we wouldn't use it as a driveway anymore, we had the concrete busted up and pavers put down.

 

 

Here's a closeup of the root. 

 

 

 

 

 

[..Kev]

_{Well, that's big enough to keep the cars out..}

[treeslayer]

lots of BF there, what kind of tree is it?

[Orbb]

lots of BF there, what kind of tree is it?

 It's a pin oak, which is red oak, I think.  It's hard to see in the picture, but it is around 60 feet in from the alley (shown by the gates in the back) and it looms over the garage and family room.  No room to get a bucket truck in to take it down.  I had it and a sister pin oak of the same size trimmed two years ago and it cost me $1800, because it was all done by hand, with ropes.  Most expensive firewood I ever bought.

 

The guy that trimmed the tree said it would cost $15,000 to get both trees removed.  I don't think there is enough lumber to justify that expense, even if we wanted to take it down.   On the bright side, it provides a nice canopy in the summer; on the bad side, I need to wear a helmet in the yard starting in August so that I don't get knocked out by acorns.

[Tom King]

http://www.rwhardware.com/products-listing/hardware-basics/

[Orbb]

http://www.rwhardware.com/products-listing/hardware-basics/

 

Thanks!

[woodbutcher74]

That root don't look like that much of an issue. If you hit the driveway fast enough and crank the the wheel, you should be able to get the car on two wheels and drive right past it. I do it everyday.

[Woodenskye]

$15,000 to remove 2 trees, that guy is out of his mind. But on the bright side you got a shop out of it.

[Tom King]

Our house is shaded by some giant Pin Oaks.   They were big when I built our house under them in 1980, and are a lot bigger now.  One benefit is the leaves are very easy to blow away.  A 13hp Billy Goat blower makes short work out of sending them into a gulley in the woods behind our house.

[Tpt life]

For $15,000, I will drop everything I am doing and have the tree down by Tuesday. I will need a third up front to buy the saw and rope as well as hiring some young guys to keep the yard clean.

[geadon]

I've never built a door, and don't have any special knowledge about building doors, so I may be missing something here. But the way those panels are constructed, as far as I can see only the molding is holding them in. It looks to me like they would be very vulnerable to being kicked in, maybe even vulnerable to being knocked out accidentally. Before building an entire door like this I would try building one panel as a prototype to see how secure it is. If this needs to be a secure door I would consider a more traditional panel, at least for the panels near the lockset.

 

.5" of foam does not provide much insulation. Remember that plywood and solid wood provide some insulation on their own. The foam will be better, but not necessarily enough to justify extra effort. You can google the R values. I'd focus more on air leaks.

[Orbb]

That root don't look like that much of an issue. If you hit the driveway fast enough and crank the the wheel, you should be able to get the car on two wheels and drive right past it. I do it everyday.

 

I built a ramp of 2 x 8's on edge to get over it, but it would pitch my wife's car on a 25 degree angle when she went over it, so she quit using it.

 

$15,000 to remove 2 trees, that guy is out of his mind. But on the bright side you got a shop out of it.

 

I think that was a price from a guy who really didn't want to take the trees down - an "I'll do it if you pay me a fortune".  We never really considered it, because the trees are such a big part of the property as a whole.   And yes, I will get a shop out of it. 

 

I've never built a door, and don't have any special knowledge about building doors, so I may be missing something here. But the way those panels are constructed, as far as I can see only the molding is holding them in. It looks to me like they would be very vulnerable to being kicked in, maybe even vulnerable to being knocked out accidentally. Before building an entire door like this I would try building one panel as a prototype to see how secure it is. If this needs to be a secure door I would consider a more traditional panel, at least for the panels near the lockset.

 

.5" of foam does not provide much insulation. Remember that plywood and solid wood provide some insulation on their own. The foam will be better, but not necessarily enough to justify extra effort. You can google the R values. I'd focus more on air leaks.

 

I think I will build one door to see about these issues, as well as the weight issues raised by wdwerker.

 

Thanks to all for the input.