mhanskat Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 So recently I decided to buy a planer, mostly because I've been reading about how a planer sled can circumvent needing a jointer. Trust me I plan to get one eventually, but the space I have is only 6' by 6' and it's got to have my workbench, table saw, and some storage at the moment. I digress. So with a sled and some hot glue I can easily flatten and get two faces of a 8/4 board coplanar. My question is about the edge jointing. So I've got my table saw blade as close to 90 degrees as humanly possible (I don't have an super accurate engineer's square of caliper or anything, just my eye and a framing square...). Why must I create a jig like I've read to joint an edge on a table saw and not just run it up against the fence? wouldn't that give me a perpendicular edge to the already flat faces? I'm just trying to understand the concept, not question it Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMarcel Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 You can just run it against the fence IF the side you run can run along the fence and not shift side to side. For example, if the parenthesis is your board and the bar is your fence, this situation (| will work fine so long as the points of your board always touch the fence going through. In that sense, the touching points make the reference and they don't change. If, on the other hand, you had this )| then there is no way you could push that board though without reference constantly changing (that is, you could rock it against the fence). The stock I buy here typically has a reasonably straight edge on one side or the other. Make sure the concave side faces the fence and that the outer points touch the fence throughout the cut and you're golden. If you can't get the stock to stay still on the fence, you could hot-glue a piece of ply to the top such that it sticks out past and edge. Run the ply against the fence for the first cut, remove ply, run the freshly cut edge against the fence to clean up the other side and you're good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmac Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Why must I create a jig like I've read to joint an edge on a table saw and not just run it up against the fence? When you're edge jointing, you're trying to do two things. One, as you're figured out, is to get the edge 90 degrees to the face of the board. The other is to make the edge of the board straight if it isn't already. Paul-Marcel's suggestion to put the concave side of the board against the fence works, but (as he says) only if the same two points on the board remain in contact with the fence throughout the cut. That's the key. But for that to work, the board has to be shorter than the distance from the front of the blade to the front of the fence, AND it has to be shorter than the distance from the back of the blade to the back of the fence. On my saw, that's only about 18". This picture shows what I mean: At A, the board is short enough that the two endpoints ride against the fence throughout the entire cut. B shows the situation with a longer board. Everything starts out fine, but as soon as you begin the cut, the board gets jammed further and further to the left against the side of the blade as the front corner of the fence contacts points closer and closer to the near end of the board. That's a sure recipe for a poor cut, probably some smoke and burning, and maybe even a nasty kickback. The jigs you've read about guide the crooked board safely through the cut by providing a straight reference edge of some sort to ride against the fence. Paul-Marcel's suggestion with the plywood does the same thing in a much simpler way. -- Russ PS: A completely different way to edge joint a board without a jointer is to rout the edge square using a straightedge to guide the router. Hand planes work, too, from what I've been told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick2cd Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Get some of these aluminum clamps. you just attach them to a straight piece of plywood and then clamp them to the board you want to get a straight edge on. the saw's fence references off the straight edge of the plywood. once you have one clean edge, you take your board out and run the new straight edge you just cut against your saw's fence and then you have 2 perfect edges. bhadda bing, bhadda boom! btw, i think they are also available at the home depot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 So recently I decided to buy a planer, mostly because I've been reading about how a planer sled can circumvent needing a jointer. Trust me I plan to get one eventually, but the space I have is only 6' by 6' and it's got to have my workbench, table saw, and some storage at the moment. I digress. So with a sled and some hot glue I can easily flatten and get two faces of a 8/4 board coplanar. My question is about the edge jointing. So I've got my table saw blade as close to 90 degrees as humanly possible (I don't have an super accurate engineer's square of caliper or anything, just my eye and a framing square...). Why must I create a jig like I've read to joint an edge on a table saw and not just run it up against the fence? wouldn't that give me a perpendicular edge to the already flat faces? I'm just trying to understand the concept, not question it Thanks! You are space challenged with a 6' X 6" area. But I love it that fact does not stop you. Anyway to edge joint use a hand plane. You will have to check for square against the face of the board that to make it work. But edge (hand) planing is quick and easy compared to the face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhanskat Posted February 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 Ah makes sense now. I'm still so new to this I don't understand the concepts very well. That makes sense now. Most of the lumber I already have is S4S, but it still has some twist in it. I'm still looking for a better lumber yard near where I live! Ok so next question then is that I've been using the planer sled on some twisted 2x4 to test out the technique before I dive into my good stock. For the life of me I can't get a square edge though! I've adjusted the table saw bevel numerous times trying to get the proper joint, but it seems no matter what I do I'm off by about 1/64-1/32 of an inch. I'm trying to make the cutting board project and theres a lot of glue up that needs to be flush. Will this be adequate or should I fond the culprit if my alignment? As for hand tools, I've yet to install a vice on my workbench, so hand planing/jointing would be a challenge! But just like the space I'm up for it! Also on the router jointing, can I use a large clamp? I don't have a clamping straight edge yet so I'm trying to get creative here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmac Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 I've adjusted the table saw bevel numerous times trying to get the proper joint, but it seems no matter what I do I'm off by about 1/64-1/32 of an inch. I'm trying to make the cutting board project and theres a lot of glue up that needs to be flush. Will this be adequate or should I fond the culprit if my alignment? I'm not one of those guys who thinks that everything has to be within .0001" or else it's junk, but if you've got a problem that you can easily see and measure, then I think you should try to solve it. If your saw isn't cutting square in a noticeable way like you've described, it will affect everything you try to do, and not for the better. Also on the router jointing, can I use a large clamp? I don't have a clamping straight edge yet so I'm trying to get creative here! You don't need a clamping straight edge, just something straight that you can clamp to your workpiece to guide the router. The factory edge of a piece of MDF is a good place to start. This site describes the process in more detail. You want to look about halfway down the page where it says "Clamp-On Fence", and watch the second half of the little video clip to see how to set everything up. -- Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmac Posted February 26, 2011 Report Share Posted February 26, 2011 One more thing that may be important. You said you were using a framing square. The ones you buy these days in the home center are notorious for being not square. They're close, of course, and fine for rough carpentry, but possibly/probably not close enough to use a reference when setting up your saw. So before you get all freaked out about not being able to get your saw cutting square, make sure your square is square! Here's one way to do it. -- Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhanskat Posted February 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 One more thing that may be important. You said you were using a framing square. The ones you buy these days in the home center are notorious for being not square. They're close, of course, and fine for rough carpentry, but possibly/probably not close enough to use a reference when setting up your saw. So before you get all freaked out about not being able to get your saw cutting square, make sure your square is square! Here's one way to do it. -- Russ Yea that was it, my combo square was off (Said the wrong thing there...) I bought a lot of my stuff from big box stores a)for convenience and b)price. The 16" combo square I bought there had a bowed rule, kinda makes it hard to square anything! On the good side though, the tiny 6" square of the same make and model was actually extremely close. I checked it against a fresh piece of MDF like you guys recommended here and it was damn close if not perfectly square. Guess there's less to go wrong with a tiny little thing like that. Guess this has really made me understand how important a good combo square is, I've read Starrett is one of the best, I think I'll go see if I can get something from Amazon at a decent price. Also, slapped a quick jig together of some particle board for my table saw woes, that way it's at least riding on a straight edge! I look forward to completing my first project here this weekend! Wish me luck! Thanks for all the tips! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMarcel Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 To test a square, use the double-squaring check. On a piece of something you know is cut straight (verified with a couple straight-edges), put the square with the hook to the left, mark a straight line perpendicular to the edge. Now flip the square so the hook goes to the right. Mark another line really close to the first (but leave a tiny gap). Any error from square will be doubled; the parallel lines are easier to see the error than drawing one line on another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daviddoria Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 @Nick Feola - Those clamps look like a great concept, but don't the make both the sled board and the board to be cut sit up an 1/8" (or however thick the metal is on the bottom), making the edge not perpendicular to the face of the board? Also, do you know where you can get those clamps besides Ebay? Thanks, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombarde16 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Youngwood beat me to it: This is a perfect chance to get into handplanes. Perfect because putting a straight edge on a board before sending it through a table saw is fast, inexpensive and (best of all) easy. To this day, I still wouldn't trust my planing skills to edge joint two boards for glue up. But I've had no trouble at all getting an edge straight enough to reference against the fence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjeff70 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Does anyone have experience using both the sled/hot glue method and the method of just roughly hand planing a board flat before sending it through the planer? Is either method more advantageous than the other? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Slack Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Another approach. Run a plunge saw with a guide. If your budget does not allow to the best one ... Festool .. then get you a cheap saw and a piece of 1/2" plywood with a fence. Make the cut and you will have one straight edge to reference from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Slack Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Here is a link where Marc reviewed the Grizzly track saw ... http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/grizzly-track-saw-review/ Here is a link with ideas of how to make your own plywood fence. http://www.wwgoa.com/shop-made-circular-saw-guide-cheap-easy-awesome/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick LoDico Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 This will give you one straight edge: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave H Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 This is what I use for a straight edge jig for the table saw. You clamp the piece you want straighten Than set the fence so your taking a sliver off the edge and, there you go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 This is all very helpful. Great question, and appreciating the replies. Pics are MOst helpful to me at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombarde16 Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 Does anyone have experience using both the sled/hot glue method and the method of just roughly hand planing a board flat before sending it through the planer? Is either method more advantageous than the other? Yup, I've done both and they both work. The hot glue method leaves you with a piece of plywood that has gobs of glue all over it, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el capitán Posted April 24, 2014 Report Share Posted April 24, 2014 Does anyone have experience using both the sled/hot glue method and the method of just roughly hand planing a board flat before sending it through the planer? Is either method more advantageous than the other? I have done both and both work but have advantages and disadvantages. The sled is what I started with but it takes up a lot of space 12" wide and at least 8' long is a lot of space. Now I use the hand plane to flatten one face then run it though the planer with the hand planed face down, but there is some learning curve when flattening a board with a hand plane. There is also the cost of the hand planes to consider with this method. I wouln't say that neither method is "better" than the other, you just have to choose for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjeff70 Posted April 26, 2014 Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 Thanks for the input guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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