Let's talk about dogs.


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Does it?  I always felt like it was a mouthful.  And of course I've endured a lifetime of douche jokes. LOL

Love the fact that you're sticking to your guns Mel and building the bench you want to have.  Even tho we don't agree on a couple features, I applaud the fact that doesn't sway your decision.   Opin

I'll be buried with my Gramercys.

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Yes, once you use square ones and realize how easy and quick they are to set the height you'll never go back to round.

Yes, you can "get away" with round dogs. No you don't "need" square ones.

By the same token you can "get away" with an egg beater style drill, but after you use a cordless drill you never want to again.

 

Go borrow somebody's bench with square dog holes and then come back and try to build your bench without them. Guarantee, once you have square dogs you will never go back.

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then you have to remove and store when not in use. When sprung, they tuck away, and you dont lose them, and you dont fiddle looking for them when you need to secure a workpiece.

 

How many do you need? I have holes on my bench legs where holdfasts and dogs go. I'm never having to look for them.

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Put me down for round. Can add them all after it's nice and flat.

 

For a well engineered bench that is well thought out, especially with a beautiful flat top, it seems silly to be drilling holes after it is all said and done. Should have planned workholding in a more thoughtful manner. Not that it can't be done, just seems silly.

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For a well engineered bench that is well thought out, especially with a beautiful flat top, it seems silly to be drilling holes after it is all said and done. Should have planned workholding in a more thoughtful manner. Not that it can't be done, just seems silly.

 

I agree that you should be thinking about this aspect during the build.  I like the fact that square is easier to add the spring and push thru the hole when not in use.  Is that the only advantage?

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How many do you need? I have holes on my bench legs where holdfasts and dogs go. I'm never having to look for them.

 

Thats fine cochese, nothing wrong with that, but when they're sprung and tucked in the dog hole, its click boom. More efficient in the long run. 

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For a well engineered bench that is well thought out, especially with a beautiful flat top, it seems silly to be drilling holes after it is all said and done. Should have planned workholding in a more thoughtful manner. Not that it can't be done, just seems silly.

 

Kinda arrogant thing to say. My plan and my build were just fine, thank you.

 

Drilling the holes after it was assembled had zero effect. Plus, it worked better for me in my extremely small shop.

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I agree that you should be thinking about this aspect during the build.  I like the fact that square is easier to add the spring and push thru the hole when not in use.  Is that the only advantage?

 

height adjustment for different stock, for thin stock the dog will barely protrude through the bench. For thicker stock, lift it to support the piece better. This will work for round too as long as you have a a flat face cut long enough. 

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Let me get this straight...

1) Real Men use square dogs.

2) Round dogs are like egg beater drills.

3) Square dogs save a few seconds because they just pop up.

4) Square dogs stay in the hole squarely.

Point one, really?

Two, I like those drills.

Three, how much time does it really take? Really...

Four, is it really difficult to move the round dog squarely to the work?

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Kinda arrogant thing to say. My plan and my build were just fine, thank you.

 

Drilling the holes after it was assembled had zero effect. Plus, it worked better for me in my extremely small shop.

 

Nothing was said about your bench cochese, we are building off the original post.

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If you have something taller that you want to stand on its edge, you can't use round even if you make the flat really long. It won't work.

 

Mel, do what you want, it's your bench.
But how many benches are you going to build in your life?

 

In my humble opinion, you may as well do it the best way possible. What's the point in skimping on your dogs?

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Nothing was said about your bench cochese, we are building off the original post.

 

You quoted my post.

 

I'm simply saying that adding the holes after the slab is done isn't a result of poor planning. Just the opposite, really. I modeled mine after the Schwarz's design and I think it works well. 

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If you have something taller that you want to stand on its edge, you can't use round even if you make the flat really long. It won't work.

 

Mel, do what you want, it's your bench.

But how many benches are you going to build in your life?

 

In my humble opinion, you may as well do it the best way possible. What's the point in skimping on your dogs?

 

Perhaps you could give or show an example. I'm thinking in that situation you might want to use the legs or a deadman if you have one, so I wouldn't mind seeing that cleared up.

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And you're not wrong Cochese, whatever works for an individual. For me personally, if I carefully select beautiful planks for my bench I want to plan everything before I make even a rough cut. Everyone's different. I quoted your post based on the drilling holes after. This is a debate of round vs square, is it not? These are my points, not everyone elses. I'm playing nice, hopefully everyone else can.

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I'm certainly not here to argue... debate yes, but never to argue or to take offense or mean any harm.

This forum is great because we can all learn here. I sure as heck don't know everything! I learn something almost everyday on here.

As far as the amount of benches I'll build... Honestly at least one more when I move and have a larger shop.

Yes, it is my bench, and for all I know I'll use triangle dogs. I wanted to have an open discussion about this. Not have people get upset over it. It's really not worth it if that happens.

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And you're not wrong Cochese, whatever works for an individual. For me personally, if I carefully select beautiful planks for my bench I want to plan everything before I make even a rough cut. Everyone's different. I quoted your post based on the drilling holes after. This is a debate of round vs square, is it not? These are my points, not everyone elses. I'm playing nice, hopefully everyone else can.

 

Yes, let's play nice....  ;)

 

I'm on the fence..  Is there a "hold" advantage to square dogs?  I'll concede that square dogs store better and probably adjust easier.

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The Schwarz has a blog post on this in the '05/'06 time-frame -- search for French Bench Build... Chris advocates round...

 

To summarize his blog, if you think about dogs/dog holes from a purely intellectual exercise, it makes far more sense to go with round dogs... So just smile, drink the Kool-Aid and join the 3/4" round empire... On so many levels, round dogs are the better choice...

 

Now here's the rub...

 

Aesthetics mandate square -- there is something that looks right about a line of square dogs. My last Roubo had round dogs, my current Roubo has square... I prefer the look/feel of square dogs... Does it make any difference in stock-holding? Hell no... But I prefer the look/feel of square dogs...

 

Make no mistake, milling square dog-holes is a real pain... And while under construction, you'll curse the day you decided on square -- until you're done... It doesn't make any logical sense, but looking back, you'll be glad you went square...

 

Want to expand on one point... I've lived with round dogs for a decade and square for only two years... At no-time did I ever find one type of dog superior to another -- most of the arguments advocating one over the other are simply that -- arguments. At a stock-holding level there is no practical difference -- full stop.

 

Just my 2c...

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And you're not wrong Cochese, whatever works for an individual. For me personally, if I carefully select beautiful planks for my bench I want to plan everything before I make even a rough cut. Everyone's different. I quoted your post based on the drilling holes after. This is a debate of round vs square, is it not? These are my points, not everyone elses. I'm playing nice, hopefully everyone else can.

 

Either way it is part of the design process. One could do both kinds of dogs both ways.

 

For me it was nice on my first real bench that I could concentrate on getting the glue-up right and not have to worry about spacing or anything like that. I added my end vice after it was assembled and marked my holes referenced on it.

 

This isn't going to be my last bench, that's for sure. I certainly like the design, and I'll learn from my mistakes for the next one.

 

It's all good. All I can do is make counterpoints based on my experience.

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The Schwarz has a blog post on this in the '05/'06 time-frame -- search for French Bench Build... Chris advocates round...

 

To summarize his blog, if you think about dogs/dog holes from a purely intellectual exercise, it makes far more sense to go with round dogs... So just smile, drink the Kool-Aid and join the 3/4" round empire... On so many levels, round dogs are the better choice...

 

Now here's the rub...

 

Aesthetics mandate square -- there is something that looks right about a line of square dogs. My last Roubo had round dogs, my current Roubo has square... I prefer the look/feel of square dogs... Does it make any difference in stock-holding? Hell no... But I prefer the look/feel of square dogs...

 

Make no mistake, milling square dog-holes is a real pain... And while under construction, you'll curse the day you decided on square -- until you're done... It doesn't make any logical sense, but looking back, you'll be glad you went square...

 

Just my 2c...

 

Thanks for an awesome honest answer H!

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