New Bosch Jobsite saw w flesh detection coming !


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Dollars to donuts this is also to protect the manufacturer from liability if the saw is used in a commercial setting (which probably voids warranties and various liabilities).  Easier to make the case in court that the saw was used commercially if you can document that the saw was used X number of hours per week.

Is someone really going to be using this as a production saw?  That seems really weird.  It is for contractors not production after all.

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Sawstop works two ways (1) the blade falls into the table and  (2) it smashes into a block of aluminum.  The second part is what destroys the blade.  I am pretty sure Gass considered just having the blade fall into the table and decided he want a redundant system, hence the aluminum block.   Some people will like the idea of saving a blade, from my perspective blades are cheaper than fingers.   The two trigger cartridge is a nice idea. 

 

I think (2) is what actually causes (1) to happen.  My HS physics is admittedly rusty but I believe what's happening when the SS brake is activated is that a spring pushes the brake into the blade, the blade smashes into the brake, and all that angular momentum of the spinning blade has to go somewhere, so the system is designed to absorb it by allowing the blade to force everything downward, which is what causes the blade to go beneath the table.

 

I think what happens with Bosch is that some other mechanism pulls the blade beneath the table and THEN the brake "pad" pushes against the body of the blade (not the teeth) which then brings it to a more gradual stop (in a relative sense - probably still very quick).  I would imagine this is a more expensive proposition than just using the momentum of the blade to pull it beneath the table naturally, which might account for some of the price difference.  

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Dollars to donuts this is also to protect the manufacturer from liability if the saw is used in a commercial setting (which probably voids warranties and various liabilities).  Easier to make the case in court that the saw was used commercially if you can document that the saw was used X number of hours per week.

 

Its used to track stupidity and allow for future connect ability.

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I think (2) is what actually causes (1) to happen.  My HS physics is admittedly rusty but I believe what's happening when the SS brake is activated is that a spring pushes the brake into the blade, the blade smashes into the brake, and all that angular momentum of the spinning blade has to go somewhere, so the system is designed to absorb it by allowing the blade to force everything downward, which is what causes the blade to go beneath the table.

 

I think what happens with Bosch is that some other mechanism pulls the blade beneath the table and THEN the brake "pad" pushes against the body of the blade (not the teeth) which then brings it to a more gradual stop (in a relative sense - probably still very quick).  I would imagine this is a more expensive proposition than just using the momentum of the blade to pull it beneath the table naturally, which might account for some of the price difference.  

 

I am lead to understand that they are using charges like in airbags so that that provides the energy.  Other mechanical systems would be to slow, so in the sawstop they use the energy of the blade to retract it.  The aluminum block doesn't need to move very far at all just the fraction of an inch clearance it has with the blade to engage. 

 

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I am lead to understand that they are using charges like in airbags so that that provides the energy.  Other mechanical systems would be to slow, so in the sawstop they use the energy of the blade to retract it.  The aluminum block doesn't need to move very far at all just the fraction of an inch clearance it has with the blade to engage. 

 

 

 

The charge fires the aluminum block into the blade, the angular momentum of the blade being stopped instantly is what retracts it below the table.

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I suppose the SS design needs to worry about the blade momentum because it's stopping it in such a short time.  if the Bosch system lets it glide to a stop slowly, then it would be less of an issue.

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Would that be a moronometer?

 

Sure thats a good word. :) I read somewhere that there was going to be future connectivity so that employers could monitor usage and blade wear via an app. Not sure how that will end up going. But the machine will need major service after the 25 shot IMO that is really what its all about.

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Don't forget...

 

A job site saw has a lot less rotating mass to stop than a contractor or cabinet saw.   Theoretically, with an arbor brake, and possibly some counter EMF, maybe even with a different type of motor than you'd usually see in such a saw, it should be easier to stop the blade on the smaller saw without jamming the blade into a block of aluminum.

 

Rumors say the new Bosch can still handle a dado set, which obviously jacks the rotating mass back up.  If that's true, there might be some really cool new ideas in this tool.  There might be technology that could be more easily transferred to other machines than the SawStop brake method.

 

I'm looking forward to the public release!

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Maybe since Bosch doesn't compete so directly with a company like Grizzly, they'd be willing to license the technology on reasonable terms to them.  Of course, much as I like my big green Grizzly tools for the most part, I might be just a tad nervous depending on a bargain chineeese implementation of this stuff...

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Maybe since Bosch doesn't compete so directly with a company like Grizzly, they'd be willing to license the technology on reasonable terms to them.  Of course, much as I like my big green Grizzly tools for the most part, I might be just a tad nervous depending on a bargain chineeese implementation of this stuff...

 

Bosch's current line of jobsite saws are made in Taiwan.

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A jobsite saw doesn't interest me in the least. Now if Bosch stepped it up and made a European style table saw, or a cabinet saw with this feature than things could get interesting. Still a pretty cool way of going about it. I think we need a hotdog test to show how much damage is on the skin.

Tom, what is a European style table saw?

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Sawstop works two ways (1) the blade falls into the table and  (2) it smashes into a block of aluminum.  The second part is what destroys the blade.  I am pretty sure Gass considered just having the blade fall into the table and decided he want a redundant system, hence the aluminum block.   Some people will like the idea of saving a blade, from my perspective blades are cheaper than fingers.   The two trigger cartridge is a nice idea. 

I just read through this thread and found it real interesting from all sides of the conversation.  I own a SawStop and am really happy with it but out of the box you still need to respect the spinning blade I don't want to get lazy because of the technology.  I did trigger the brake on mine once.  It was metal not me.  I didn't have the fence on my Incra miter tightened properly and it touched the blade.  you can barely see the contact point because it goes so fast but the noise it makes gets your attention real good.  

 

I have two comments to kind of follow on what Mike said.  In my case it did not wreak the blade.  I don't use it any more because I purchased some nicer blades but the damage that was done is something that could be repaired with a good sharpening.  And as far as the Bosch cartridge having a double hit,  I talking with another customer at a Woodcraft store who also owned a SawStop and he had some good food for thought.  He wouldn't want to have a spare cartridge on hand in his garage.  He thought if he had an accident that caused the brake to engage that maybe it would be best to walk away and regroup even if it was just to go to the store and get a new cartridge and blade... take a breather.

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Bosch is a GIANT. Like, 46 billion (Euros) in sales last year, and an average profit of 2 billion after tax kind of giant. Their tool division is just a finger on the hand connected to the arm of their main body of business. This can only be a good thing for woodworkers.

 

Bosch has a history of developing technology and licencing it to whoever will pay for it, for whatever measly profit someone is willing to pay. They don't want to get into the stationary power tool game, because they would prefer to licence that tech to every other manufacturer in the stationary power tool game. It's just like their automotive business. Find a car rolling down the road without a Bosch part on it, somewhere, and you're a lucky person.

 

My prediction is in 5 years you'll see all the major tool manufacturers using their tech, and SawStop will be left out in the cold with the only proprietary, non-standard blade braking tech. That's the price of trying to strong arm billion dollar businesses, I guess.

 

Having said all that, Sawstop makes fantastic saws, and I've been overwhelmingly impressed crawling around their tools at the local Lee Valley. But if it came down to a battle between a Powermatic with flesh sensing, and a SawStop with flesh sensing, I would choose the Powermatic, just because of politics.

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