wdwerker Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 I just read in Woodshop News that Bosch is coming out with flesh detection on a Jobsite Tablesaw this fall. Cartridge is good for 2 trips before replacement. It could get interesting to see how many others come up with one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstroDave Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 Here's a link I found... pretty neat... http://www.marketwired.com/press-release/bosch-gts1041a-reaxx-portable-jobsite-table-saw-takes-user-safety-next-level-saves-blade-2001655.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southwood Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 How about a video? Looks sweet for it's size Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Hungarian Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 I thought Sawstop had their patent worded well enough to cover any conceivable competing flesh-sensing technology that anyone else could possibly invent? Though Roy Underhill once demonstrated a 19th-century Barnes treadle tablesaw that had advanced flesh-sensing technology too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 I thought Sawstop had their patent worded well enough to cover any conceivable competing flesh-sensing technology that anyone else could possibly invent? Though Roy Underhill once demonstrated a 19th-century Barnes treadle tablesaw that had advanced flesh-sensing technology too... Bosch has had this in the works for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem Posted March 18, 2015 Report Share Posted March 18, 2015 I hope that bosch develops this tech in a cabinet or even a hybrid/contractor saw. I would seriously consider it if they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 A jobsite saw doesn't interest me in the least. Now if Bosch stepped it up and made a European style table saw, or a cabinet saw with this feature than things could get interesting. Still a pretty cool way of going about it. I think we need a hotdog test to show how much damage is on the skin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 A jobsite saw doesn't interest me in the least. Now if Bosch stepped it up and made a European style table saw, or a cabinet saw with this feature than things could get interesting. Still a pretty cool way of going about it. I think we need a hotdog test to show how much damage is on the skin. Looks like the blade retreats before making contact with his finger. Probably a very sensitive induction sensor is connected, somehow, to the blade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 you guys hate sawstop that much that you'd be willing to buy an unproven Bosch cabinet saw over a sawstop? Bosch makes jobsite tools and jig saws, not stationary machines. I like their tools, but they have no history in stationary machines. Bite nose, spite face I don't hate SawStop at all I think their machines are great, however they are the only dog on block with a safety technology to keep your fingers intact. Bosch introducing a saw would create competition which would possibly drive prices down, and offer options. SawStop wasn't founded until 1999, which in all honestly is still a company in its infancy. Think about all the other stationary saw manufacturers and pioneers, Delta, Craftsman, Powermatic, Walker Turner, etc. Bosch makes quality stuff, so I don't think they'd fail at making a stationary tool. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan S Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 you guys hate sawstop that much that you'd be willing to buy an unproven Bosch cabinet saw over a sawstop? I don't hate SawStop, I hate Steve Gass and his politics/rhetoric! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfitz Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Bosch filed over 5,000 patents in 2013 (direct from their website)....so don't tell me they don't play the same patent/legal game that Steve G played (and plays). This is the same for any company that comes up with any sort of innovation. The notion of a company altruistically making their safety technology available to others is a ridiculous notion. It's also ridiculous to assume that other large companies don't lobby the government for what is in their own best interest. I don't hate Steve G for it, any more than I hate the other companies for playing the game too. Now, having said that, I really do like my SS. I think it's a great saw, and it's the right one for me - but I'm glad there is competition in the market, and especially for a jobsite saw. It seems to me that those are the most likely to be used "improperly" (use your own definition of "improper" here). It looks very interesting, and I'll definitely be watching how this goes in the marketplace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan S Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 It's also ridiculous to assume that other large companies don't lobby the government for what is in their own best interest. I don't hate Steve G for it, any more than I hate the other companies for playing the game too. Name one other tool manufacture that tried to get the government to force their product on us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Bosch filed over 5,000 patents in 2013 (direct from their website)....so don't tell me they don't play the same patent/legal game that Steve G played (and plays). This is the same for any company that comes up with any sort of innovation. The notion of a company altruistically making their safety technology available to others is a ridiculous notion. It's also ridiculous to assume that other large companies don't lobby the government for what is in their own best interest. I don't hate Steve G for it, any more than I hate the other companies for playing the game too. Now, having said that, I really do like my SS. I think it's a great saw, and it's the right one for me - but I'm glad there is competition in the market, and especially for a jobsite saw. It seems to me that those are the most likely to be used "improperly" (use your own definition of "improper" here). It looks very interesting, and I'll definitely be watching how this goes in the marketplace. John I think maybe Dan was referring to Steve Gass' push to get flesh detection/braking technology industry mandated. He couldn't get any of the big saw manufacturers to buy is technology so he tried to get politicians to force it. I own a SawStop and love it. I disagree with Gass' push to mandate it but it didn't stop me from buying the saw even for a second. Bosch's potential improvements on the technology are intriguing but not enough to make me pay extra (if the MSRP reported above is accurate). Edit: Looks like Dan beat me to the punch. Edit 2: Looks like John even acknowledged that in his first paragraph. Looks like my post was superfluous. Carry on guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 When people say they'd buy a hypothetical bosch it does beg the question of why they don't just go get a sawstop now, that is all. Yeah I agree with this. If the saws were absolutely dead nuts equal in every respect except that Bosch's brake doesn't destroy the blade and you get 2 brake fires per cartridge and they were the same price, then ok that's cool and I'd consider it if I were looking for a saw. But the reality right now is that SawStop makes a very high quality saw that's been proven for over a decade, and Bosch just came to market with this at a higher price point without ten years of proof that the product is solid. As for the advantage of not ruining the blade and 2x brake fires per brake? Sure, cool I guess, but how often are you expecting to fire the brake? If you're firing the brake often enough for that to matter then you've got other issues on your hands (pun intended). I agree that competition is good and I look forward to seeing it develop, but if you're that excited about some hypothetical bosch cabinet saw years down the line with this technology, why not just buy a SawStop now? I'm no SawStop fanboy by any means, and I really labored over the decision (as evidenced by a five page thread here last year). Not trying to start a flame war or touch the third rail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 The Bosch technology is actually a collaboration, all this came out in the "famous" law suit. I doubt Bosch will ever come out with a cabinet saw, that said the work may spread to other companies that are more focused on larger saws. My crystal ball is on the fritz right now so I couldn't say. I'm not going to get into the politics issues but I do think it is good that the general idea is going forward. Its going to be awhile but eventually it will be wide spread. May not be in my lifetime but its moving that direction and in a few years Sawstop and the current Bosch will be old technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfitz Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Name one other tool manufacture that tried to get the government to force their product on us! I explicitly didn't say "tool manufacturers", but OK. How about lobbying to keep something away from us? I'll point to an industry consortium that fought against safety technology not because they felt it was "unfair", but because they were worried about their own profits. The Power Tool Institute. From an article on fairwarning.org: "But as court records and testimony have shown, the companies rejected the safety advance for another reason, too: They worried that if a way to prevent severe injuries got traction in the market, they would face liability for accidents with conventional saws" (emphasis is mine) I''m no fan of the tactics of either side, but it all comes down to dollars and cents. If they're willing to lobby to protect their profits, then anything is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwacker Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 I would suggest folks actually read the court records instead of taking internet comments taken out of context as gospel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan S Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 "But as court records and testimony have shown, the companies rejected the safety advance for another reason, too: They worried that if a way to prevent severe injuries got traction in the market, they would face liability for accidents with conventional saws" (emphasis is mine) This is referring to the fact that the manufactures snubbed Glass when he approached them, not that they tried to use the government to stop regulations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 you guys hate sawstop that much that you'd be willing to buy an unproven Bosch cabinet saw over a sawstop? Bosch makes jobsite tools and jig saws, not stationary machines. I like their tools, but they have no history in stationary machines. Bite nose, spite face Where did I say I hate Saw Stop? I happen to really like Bosch tools, as well as think the competition against Saw Stop will do nothing but benefit the consumer in the long run. As for unproven, was Saw Stop a "proven" cabinet saw when it was first released? Based on my own experience with Bosch tools I would feel safe buying a machine from them, and has nothing to do with hating the competitor. For what its worth, I am not even at the point were I can seriously consider replacing my table saw. However, I have looked closely at the Saw Stop machines, and find them to be one of the best table saws on the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pghmyn Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Technology wise, I like the Bosch method better. No blade damage and same end goal? I guess if you REALLY need that hot dog test, and if it passes that, I would go with Bosch's technology given the option. Same cartridge goes for two cycles and you keep your blade, that's my selling point. But with that said, I'll probably buy neither in the near future. No funds, and no need yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfitz Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Dan - good point about it being the snubbing, not the lobbying. I hope Bosch does well with this saw. They're obviously a proven company (not a "startup") and I'm looking forward to checking one out in person at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfitz Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Carry on guys Carrying on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponderingturtle Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 I would suggest folks actually read the court records instead of taking internet comments taken out of context as gospel. What and make this no longer the internet? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponderingturtle Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 Technology wise, I like the Bosch method better. No blade damage and same end goal? I guess if you REALLY need that hot dog test, and if it passes that, I would go with Bosch's technology given the option. Same cartridge goes for two cycles and you keep your blade, that's my selling point. But with that said, I'll probably buy neither in the near future. No funds, and no need yet. The Bosch also seems to have some interesting technology about monitoring saw hours and use. Seems more geared toward having saws used by non owners but still interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgreenb Posted March 19, 2015 Report Share Posted March 19, 2015 The Bosch also seems to have some interesting technology about monitoring saw hours and use. Seems more geared toward having saws used by non owners but still interesting. Dollars to donuts this is also to protect the manufacturer from liability if the saw is used in a commercial setting (which probably voids warranties and various liabilities). Easier to make the case in court that the saw was used commercially if you can document that the saw was used X number of hours per week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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