Cliff Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Anyone have an opinion on this? http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001DSY7G6/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=OFJVVLZN5RCM&coliid=I13D4MC3DBJLCP I think I want to try dovetails, and honestly it's one thing that seems way easier to do by hand than with a machine. I don't need the best or anywhere near the best, I just don't want to be frustrated. I'm thinking of trying the whole 30 dovetails in 30 days thing. I also wouldn't mind a recommendation for a good general purpose hand saw and a coping saw, if you are feeling generous. Again, decent but not something I want to spend a lot of money on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 I have similar and am pleased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Anyone have an opinion on this? http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001DSY7G6/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=OFJVVLZN5RCM&coliid=I13D4MC3DBJLCP I'm thinking of trying the whole 30 dovetails in 30 days thing. Is this a thing? I've never heard of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted July 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Is this a thing? I've never heard of it It's a thing on reddit that people talk of from time to time. The idea being to prep 30 sets and do one a day and take pics to gauge your progress and speed. Since pine is cheap and I've never done a dovetail, I am thinking of trying it out. Not sure if it originated here or not, on popular woodworking? http://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/joinery/a-dovetail-a-day-%E2%80%93-hurray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tpt life Posted July 10, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 I would talk you out of pine unless you have some stiff stuff. Poplar is also cheap and takes the chiseling better without compressing and tearing so much. Pine takes super sharp and still often tears. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendon_t Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Interesting. Is it just me or does the readers #1 look better than # 29? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 I would practice in hard maple. If you can dovetail in hard maple you can dovetail in anything. Pine will give you a false sense of success since the fibers will just mush into submission. Poplar the same to a lesser extent. The 30 dovetails in 30 days is a great idea. I tried dovetailing with a dozuki once...hated it. It felt awkward and imprecise. But some guys love them. I think western saws are easier to learn to cut straight with, but on the other hand, the pull cut on the Japanese saws is also an advantage when you're getting started. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 I have to disagree with Eric, for once. I find the pull saw much easier to keep straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted July 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 I would practice in hard maple. If you can dovetail in hard maple you can dovetail in anything. Pine will give you a false sense of success since the fibers will just mush into submission. Poplar the same to a lesser extent. The 30 dovetails in 30 days is a great idea. I tried dovetailing with a dozuki once...hated it. It felt awkward and imprecise. But some guys love them. I think western saws are easier to learn to cut straight with, but on the other hand, the pull cut on the Japanese saws is also an advantage when you're getting started. Thanks for the suggestion. It wouldn't really cost that much more to use maple because I can just cut the pins and tails off the previous days adventures and start anew. Since it's not for a project I have no reason to hold on to them. Sounds like I may have to just get a saw and see if I like it. My reason for the japanese style was that I read you can get a better quality saw for cheaper. Can you recommend a similar quality western style dovetail saw? In case I end up not liking the Japanese style? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric. Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 I have to disagree with Eric, for once. I find the pull saw much easier to keep straight. It's the grip on the Japanese saws that makes things awkward for me. I do like the pull cut, but once you learn the proper way to hold a western saw it becomes a non-issue. You should hold a saw like you're holding a baby bird...just enough so you don't drop it. The weight of the saw should be doing all the work...you're only guiding it with your hand. If you're strangling the handle you won't get good results. Thanks for the suggestion. It wouldn't really cost that much more to use maple because I can just cut the pins and tails off the previous days adventures and start anew. Since it's not for a project I have no reason to hold on to them. Sounds like I may have to just get a saw and see if I like it. My reason for the japanese style was that I read you can get a better quality saw for cheaper. Can you recommend a similar quality western style dovetail saw? In case I end up not liking the Japanese style? The Veritas DT saw is like sixty-something bucks if I remember correctly. That's pretty cheap for a saw you could probably use for the rest of your life. Lie-Nielsens are closer to a hundred I think. Maybe $120? Still cheap in the woodworking world. You'll probably end up with both anyway. I use a dozuki occasionally for odds and ends when it feels like a better fit for a certain task. Can't explain that decision...I just grab it sometimes. The best thing would be to go to a store or show where you can demo both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted July 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Sadly there is no such store around me unless there is one in Chicago - which is a 3 hour trip. One I make a few times per year, but still, I tend to visit BBQ joints instead of woodworking stores. $60 isn't too much to pay. I think $120 would be. At least for my purposes. I'm not ready, I think, to purchase a handsaw for a couple of weeks, so no need for me to decide right this second! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Which three hour direction are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SawDustB Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 I got these two Japanese saws from Lee Valley and have been quite happy with them so far: http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=50663&cat=1,42884,50663 The dozuki is a little on the small side, but it seems like a reasonable size for dovetailing. The two saws together was pretty reasonable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Back to agreeing with Eric again, cut quality IS all about the grip. Unlike Eric, I find the correct grip easier to achieve with my pull saw. Other aspects come into play here, like bench height and work holding methods. Pull saws seem easier to use when the work is lower. Remember that traditional Japanese woodworkers use benches that are little more than slabs of wood resting on the floor, with a planing stop on one end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cancelleri Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 I have a Z-Saw dozuki, I love it. It's my go to for most any cut that needs a good clean finish and small kerf. As far as Western vs Japanese saws is concerned, I find I have better control with a Dozuki than a western saw. I do have a western style backsaw for guitar fret kerfs, though it could also be used as a dovetail saw. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted July 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Which three hour direction are you? Southwest. Between Peora, IL and the Quad Cities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 I would call Woodcraft in Peoria and ask them to have someone meet you to let you trial both if they don't have trial saws in the shop already. Calling ahead will save you a trip if they don't want to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted July 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Alas, there is no Woodcraft in Peoria. Only one in IL is woodridge.. not sure exactly where that it is but it's a 630 area code so it's Chicago suburbs. But yeah, I could schedule a trip up there and do exactly what you suggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Hmm, not sure what the place I stopped at was then. Thought sure it was Woodcraft. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted July 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 There is definitely a wood store there. I haven't been though. I guess there are monthly meetings on the 3rd Wednesday of every month. So I do plan on going there. I'm just trying to land a job in Peoria instead of the Quad Cities so it's not so far out of my way from work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyrolan Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Alas, there is no Woodcraft in Peoria. Only one in IL is woodridge.. not sure exactly where that it is but it's a 630 area code so it's Chicago suburbs. But yeah, I could schedule a trip up there and do exactly what you suggest. It's way SW Chicago burbs...only Woodcraft in Chicagoland (one in NW burbs closed). There's also a Rockler nearish Woodfield Mall area...and that's all we got anywhere around...kinda sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wouldwurker Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 More opinions from my peanut gallery. I did the 30 in 30 test as well...lasted 6 days but saw major improvement. Check out Gary Rogowski's 'dovetail warmup' article (should be easy to find) 100% agree with the 'no pine' note. When I switched to poplar, things got easier. When I switched from that exact dozuki to the LN (non angled) dovetail saw things got WAY easier. Substantial and immediate improvement. Bandsawing out the waste, especially two non angled end cuts, speed things along nicely. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wouldwurker Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Note number 2. That dozuki might as well be disposable as well. It's not pretty enough to maintain or sharpen. Spend twice as much on that Lie Nielsen and you'll baby it for a lifetime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G S Haydon Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Gyokucho 303 Tatebiki (rip) Dovetail Dozuki 240mm is a nice saw and I've been using it a while with success. I'm making some small boxes at the moment and find it a little coarse for that work. For larger scale stuff it's ultra fast! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Posted July 11, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2015 It's way SW Chicago burbs...only Woodcraft in Chicagoland (one in NW burbs closed). There's also a Rockler nearish Woodfield Mall area...and that's all we got anywhere around...kinda sad. Well now we're talking. I always go up to Woodfield Mall to hit Texas De Brazil for my birthday every year. Of course that isn't until January. I still have lots of reasons to go up, but am always busy now. I lived there for 11 years (all over the suburbs) and miss a lot of stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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