prov163 Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 My old high school class (1975) asked me to make a box to memorialize a piece of school lore. I thought it would be a great chance to try a new technique and start making some much needed changes in my approach. It's sooo nice to be working in solid wood again - I've been stuck doing plywood projects lately. Anyway, got some nice QSWO on sale at my hardwood dealer, then decided to use G&G joinery and decorative touches. This is my first project journal but I know I'll learn a lot as you guys critique and answer my questions. Here's where I am so far One board project? Milled and cut to rough sizes My first attempt at a G&G joint on scrap. I looked at some different articles but liked Marc's video best so I used his table saw approach with some modifications for my tool setup. Thanks for making this so much easier Marc!!! While I know this is a pretty easy joint, getting it tight is key so using the table saw to cut the joint but cleaning it up with my hand tools really got the joint fit right - pressed in by hand and holds position. So, a couple of questions: 1. Do you have a way of accurately marking the end of the pins for shaping the chamfers consistently? Marc uses a rasp and I've been thinking of buying an Ariou from HH, so road trip this weekend 2. How do you decide what size and number of decorative buttons/inserts per pin? Can they be made out of walnut instead of ebony? 3. I don't have a hollow chisel mortiser so what's the best way to create the square holes? The Lee Valley square punches or something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 Looks like a neat project. 47 minutes ago, prov163 said: 3. I don't have a hollow chisel mortiser so what's the best way to create the square holes? The Lee Valley square punches or something else? Never done G&G, so I'm not much help with 1 & 2, but for the mortises, I'd just drill a hole with a forstner bit in the drill press & then use a chisel to square it up. Work the chisel from each side so you don't blow it out. I wouldn't bother using a square punch cause I just don't thing it would do that good a job & would be hard to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 Just a point of interest if you are unaware. The Auriou Rasps are left and right handed so don't just grab the grain that you want and think you have the correct one. The 9 grain is a nice place to start if you are only getting one for now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prov163 Posted March 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 Thanks Chet. That's what I was thinking based on different threads here. I'm afraid the problem is going to be finding one. I'll call Highland and LN tomorrow and see if they have one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chet Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 Check Lee Valley, also Craftsman Studio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted March 13, 2017 Report Share Posted March 13, 2017 I have the Lee Valley / Darrell Peart punches but, before I did . . . I used an inexpensive set of square mortise chisels sharpened to beat the band. they required sharpening after every 5 or 6 holes. I drilled a receiver hole in a scrap of padauk and rounded it for a comfortable grip. This also gave e a large bearing surface to hit with a dead blow mallet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheperd80 Posted March 14, 2017 Report Share Posted March 14, 2017 Nice, tight fitting joint ya got there. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post prov163 Posted March 21, 2017 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 Work has been crazy so I've been out of the shop for a few days. I got the joinery rough cut tonight just need to finish cutting out the waste then do some paring for final fit. A side note: Last week I ordered three new blades from Infinity. I got a 24 tooth flat top, 80 tooth crosscut and a 50 tooth combo. I've always been lazy and just used a combo all the time but I figured it was time to see how much difference it makes. I used the rip blade to make the vertical cuts and the crosscut to take off the waste. Nice clean cuts. It does make a noticeable difference. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prov163 Posted March 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 The single finger is 2"wide. The other two are 1 1/2" wide each. Is there a standard for size and number of decorative plugs? gee-dub? Others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 I'm no G&G expert, but I think 1 per finger looks good. Size just needs to conceal the screw or dowel, maybe 1/3 the thickness of your board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wouldwurker Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 3/8" tends to be a common size...but it was used on large pieces of furniture...and a house! Remember, we're talking about three plugs on three fingers. That ebony takes up a lot of real estate Having made a small finger jointed G&G style piece, 3/8 plugs can look very cartoonish on a small scale project ...Especially if too proud. Would definitely recommend them being flush or about as proud as a short and curly. Here's a pic of what I'm talking about... it's silly how big and proud those plugs are for the size of the piece. Really wish I could do this one over. https://instagram.com/p/BSBj-bcBe9S/ As far as the chisel versus Square punch is concerned, I think you're right. With the square punch you have to use a chisel anyway to clean it up ... and if you're not lined up square when you smack it, that's all four misaligned sides of the square, not just one. And that looks terrible.,, especially on a small piece where it's more apparent. I would recommend using a 1/4 chisel and going with 1/4 square plugs if there are no screws underneath. Check out Marc's Adirondack chair guild build... can probably get a good deal if he still has them on DVD ...there's a whole chapter on ebony plugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 These are 5/16" and a 3/8" on a 2" model for a larger piece (too big for the scale) . . . and the same on a 3" final piece . . . 1/4" on 3/4" wide fingers (~3/8" stock) and 3/16" on 1/2" fingers: 1/4" on top left pull which is 1-1/4" in height and 5/16" on the long pull beneath it which is the same height. This kinda shows how the peg to material ratio is one of size and scale. SketchUp can be your friend here if you are testing out sizes to get the look you want. I have morphed over the years from a very-proud shouldered peg . . . To the softer pillowed look in the second pic. I now set the pegs so that the shoulder is just barely proud of the surface. I make extras as keep a small drill/motor and wood screw handy in case I tap one in too far. I quickly drill a small hole in the peg, screw the screw in by hand enough to grab it and pull the fouled piece before the glue can grab it and try again. I don't miss often any more but, i am always prepared to 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prov163 Posted March 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 gee-dub, vinny and highlander, thanks for your input. A couple more questions: 1. what size screw do you normally use? I was thinking a #8 2. Is the "head" of the peg oversized, i.e. does it cover the square hole or is it one piece that is then chamfered "pillowed" at the top? 3. Do you shape the top and then install it or try to shape it once it's in place, which seems tenuous to me. I don't have any ebony so I'm going to use some nice walnut I have for the pegs. I know it's not authentic but my hardwood dealer is an hour away and I don't think it's worth the drive for just a small piece of ebony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 It seems pretty easy to cut a stick to the dimension of the plug, pillow the end with abrasives, then saw it off and repeat. The screw head must be recessed to allow the plug to go deep enough for glue, no more. A jig for planing the plug stock to size, and fir trimming off the pillowed ends, seems like a good idea to maintain uniformity. Search the free videos on Marc's site, I'm certain he had one about making the plugs this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wouldwurker Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 It seems pretty easy to cut a stick to the dimension of the plug, pillow the end with abrasives, then saw it off and repeat. The screw head must be recessed to allow the plug to go deep enough for glue, no more. A jig for planing the plug stock to size, and fir trimming off the pillowed ends, seems like a good idea to maintain uniformity. Search the free videos on Marc's site, I'm certain he had one about making the plugs this way. The entire process sucks. Even with the power drill trick it sucks. Even with the cutting jig it sucks. Pillowing the plugs isn't always perfect either. Sometimes they come out more pillowed on one side or corner and look like little turds. It's the only reason I haven't finished my guild build i started in 2014. Did I mention I hate making ebony plugs? Edit... more thoughts about ebony plugs. If there was a source to purchase them in bulk I would treat them the same way I treat wooden wheels or dowels. Absolutely no fun or interesting making them myself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted March 30, 2017 Report Share Posted March 30, 2017 Anyone care to invent a plug-pillowing pencil sharpener? (I call dibs on the trade mark!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gee-dub Posted March 31, 2017 Report Share Posted March 31, 2017 18 hours ago, prov163 said: 1. what size screw do you normally use? I was thinking a #8 -- I use #7 trimhead screws under 1/4", 5/16" and 3/8". 3/16" are generally decorative but, if reinforcement is required I will run a piece of 1/8" dowel or braising rod. 2. Is the "head" of the peg oversized, i.e. does it cover the square hole or is it one piece that is then chamfered "pillowed" at the top? -- I make the peg 1/128" to 1/64" oversize, taper the end that goes in the hole, add a bit of glue and tap them in. The slight oversize forces the plug into the hole and provides a very clean shoulder to hole seam by acting a bit like a cork. 3. Do you shape the top and then install it or try to shape it once it's in place, which seems tenuous to me. I don't have any ebony so I'm going to use some nice walnut I have for the pegs. I know it's not authentic but my hardwood dealer is an hour away and I don't think it's worth the drive for just a small piece of ebony. -- It is interesting to watch Gary Rogowski 'pyramid' his plugs in place with a chisel. I notice one of the guys who works with him doing it too in the background of a video. He has obviously done this a lot and doe sit very quickly. I used to use a disc snder jig since that is how I learned watching Darrell Peart. Since then I have moved to sandpaper on a lightly padded surface and holding the blank like a pencil. I mill the ebony to oversized blanks long enough to hold comfortably and do four strokes, rotate 90 degrees, four strokes, rotate, etc. moving from grit to grit and ending up at a buffing wheel with compound. The routine of making the pegs is just part of the deal. I do them enough that I don't even really think about it. It is not wrong to loath them though. I am the same way with dovetails. I will use them if the client insists but, I find them fussy, time consuming and everybody uses them, I still appreciate them but I'm not really drawn to them in my own designs. Maybe I have A.D.D. and I'll switch to Queen Anne soon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post prov163 Posted April 19, 2017 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 Took a few days off with the wife and had minimal shop time. I've been working on cutting the joinery - fingers and holes for decorative buttons. I know all of that terminology was wrong Gee-dub will straighten me out I hope. Here's my progress so far. With the exception of the initial holes which I bored with my drill press and a 3/8" Forster bit, the rest of the joinery has been done by hand. I finally decided the best way to learn how to use chisels, saws and planes, is to actually use chisels, saws and planes. I did some practice on scrap but really worked out techniques as I went. Anyway, time for some shaping and smoothing before I assemble. I'm planning to finish the inside before glue up. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted April 19, 2017 Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 I really like the way those proud fingers look with the chamfer! Nice departure from the typical G&G "pillowed" look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prov163 Posted April 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2017 Thanks highlander! I need to do some fine sanding to soften them just a hair, but they will remain pretty close to this design. It's not G&G by definition but I like how it looks so far. Appreciate your comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post prov163 Posted July 13, 2017 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted July 13, 2017 Finally got back in the shop. Wife is out of school in summer so we took a few extra trips this year. Anyway, I've finished the plugs and installed them. Now for final shaping, some finish sanding and a few coats of ARS. Some lessons I learned during this section of the project: 1. gee-dub is the man! This stuff is hard to do but it's probably because I did everything the hard way Having done this small project I sincerely admire his craftsmanship. 2. Challenging myself sharpens my critical thinking skills. See #1. 3. "Hybrid" woodworking makes a lot of sense - in practice and the book. 4. My hand tool skills need a lot of work but the more I use them the more I enjoy them and improve. My mortises aren't all precisely the same size or perfectly square but for a first shot I'm not unhappy. Next mortises will be better. Need mortise chisels so LN is going to get another shot at my checkbook. 5. Looking forward to the arrival of my Auriou rasp! New rabbit hole to explore. 6. Did I mention gee-dub is the man? 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaneymack Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 Looking great ! Nice work !! Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 OP, not to take away from your good work, nor am I one to bust a bubble, but next time make your finger joints AND your plugs more subtle/less proud. But, I like it! Good tight joints. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prov163 Posted July 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 1 hour ago, K Cooper said: OP, not to take away from your good work, nor am I one to bust a bubble, but next time make your finger joints AND your plugs more subtle/less proud. But, I like it! Good tight joints. Coop, I spent some chisel time with the plugs to make them more subtle and that helped a lot but your excellent point is well taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted July 14, 2017 Report Share Posted July 14, 2017 I love how precise those finger joints are. Very nice work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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