New Fence for Ridgid r4512 + building a workbench that implements the r4512

[Mike Vee]

Hi Everyone!
I'm back and this time it's a 2 parter:

1) I have the Ridgid r4512 table saw and I noticed that the fence on it is kinda.... iffy. When I lock the fence, it always shifts the opposite end to the right a little, which is really aggravating. I squared the fence and it always shifts slightly right, so I'm wondering if I should just replace the fence with something else. I was doing some reading on this and the general recommendations are the Biesemeyer, Unifence, and Incra (?). I really like the idea of micro adjustment since it will help me just put the fence in the general distance and i can fine tune the fence to the line. I don't know much about table saw parts and accessories and realize that I am missing a bit of extra parts I should get for the saw. I would really love to get suggestions/recommendations on whether or not I should keep the fence or if I should get a different fence or even customize it.

 

2) A friend recommended that since I am planning to build my own workbench and my initial idea is to build a bench that i can slide the table under, but I also like the idea of being able to "combine" the tablesaw into the workbench. I wonder if that is generally something that you guys would recommend? If so I'll have to figure out how to "slide" the tablesaw into the desk and somehow make sure it is level when I retract the tablesaw's wheels.

 

What do you think?

 

Thanks!

[wtnhighlander]

Check out VerySuperCoolTools as an alternative fence system.

[SawDustB]

As an easy and cheap fix, make sure you push the fence forward against the front rail as you lock it down. That will help keep it square. I've got the same saw, and don't have issues if I do that.

For me, I like my table saw and work bench separate, but to each their own. I built a small fold down outfeed table on the back of the saw instead, and then have a large dedicated work bench.

[Mike Vee]

Sorry for the late response. Apparently tapatalk refuses to connect to woodtalkonline so I wasn't able to see the notifications at all. 

@wtnhighlander

I'll look into verysupercooltools. I've never heard of them, but based on what i'm looking at, I'd have to ask: is a fence that clamps/locks on only one side going to be stable enough to guide any material through it? Obviously i don't know much about fences, but It's mostly a concern since I'm worry about the fence giving way as wood is fed through it.

 

@SawDustB 

I was thinking that I'll either offset the fence so that when it locks down, it locks down square or something else. I'm not sure yet, but i'd rather have a fence that's just straight so I don't miscalculate the cut.

In regards to the work bench, I think that's also a good idea. I was mostly toying with the idea because my friend mentioned it. Maybe I can just create a "slot" to slide the bench into for the future or atleast make it the same exact height when the saw is set down so that when i need a larger surface, I can pull the workbench out as a support to turn it into a hybrid cabinet form. But if I do that and also decide that I want a new fence, I feel that I would probably want to get a new fence first, then build the workbench around the new fence

 

What do you guys think?

 

Thank you for your advices btw. both of you have helped me before in my previous projects and I really really appreciate your wisdom in this. 

[minorhero]

I would recommend not incorporating your table saw into your workbench. They both do very different things and frankly a table saw could be damaged doing many of the things I at least use my workbench for. 

Additionally your floor is probably not as perfectly level as you think. Making a workbench flush with a table saw in one location won't still be flush elsewhere.

[wtnhighlander]

Mike, I think you will find that most high end saws use a fence that locks only at the user end. You will find they have a much sturdier rail system to support that.

[gee-dub]

7 hours ago, Mike Vee said:

I was thinking that I'll either offset the fence so that when it locks down, it locks down square or something else. I'm not sure yet, but i'd rather have a fence that's just straight so I don't miscalculate the cut.

Just making sure we are all talking about the same thing.

I am assuming when you say this that the fence is shifting to a non-desired position.  That is, even on a Beisemeyer the fence is unlocked, slid into position and then locked down.  Part of that locking down brings the fence into square but, there is noticeable shifting of the far end.  It is just that it is shifting IN to position, not out of position.

My Saw Stop T-Glide shifts into position as part of the lock down.  I never gave it much thought having run a Beisemeyer and an Align-a-Rip on previous saws that have this characteristic.

[Tpt life]

On most B-style fences, they do not need to be fully locked to square up. This has led some of us with years behind them to “flutter” the locking handle (put it under tension, but not fully locked) up and down as we micro adjust. Verification after locking is the second step. A test cut and reverification being a third check. This kind of process should help with narrowing down exactly when in the process the movement occurs. G’s post brought that to mind. 

[Mike Vee]

On 11/5/2017 at 7:22 AM, gee-dub said:

Just making sure we are all talking about the same thing.

I am assuming when you say this that the fence is shifting to a non-desired position.  That is, even on a Beisemeyer the fence is unlocked, slid into position and then locked down.  Part of that locking down brings the fence into square but, there is noticeable shifting of the far end.  It is just that it is shifting IN to position, not out of position.

My Saw Stop T-Glide shifts into position as part of the lock down.  I never gave it much thought having run a Beisemeyer and an Align-a-Rip on previous saws that have this characteristic.

What I'm running into is that the fence locks into a non-desired position. When it's locked it, there's a noticeable difference between the front and back of the fence. If the front measures 5-1/8" in front (from fence to the first miter channel), the back would measure 5-1/4" (from fence to the first miter channel)

I squared up the fence in the unlocked position and tried to square it up in the locked position and there seems to be a shift on it which makes me not trust it at all.

 

In regards to the workbench and table saw combo, I think I understand that it's probably a bad idea, so I'll stick to the original plan to have the workbench just be high enough to store the table saw and that's it.

[Tmize]

The fence that comes with the rigid saw has a lateral adjuster. It's a flat head nylon set screw on the top side by the handle one each side to adjust the side to side an to get parallel to the blade. An have you check the miter slot to make sure that they are square to the blade. Marc has a great free video on tuning up a table saw to get it all square. 

[gee-dub]

6 hours ago, Mike Vee said:

In regards to the workbench and table saw combo, I think I understand that it's probably a bad idea, so I'll stick to the original plan to have the workbench just be high enough to store the table saw and that's it.

I think you are on a good track.  I enjoy having an outfeed table that also serves as a mobile assembly table.  If it were a workbench I would constantly be having to move stuff off of it to use the saw.

The idea of a work surface to stash the saw under has always attracted me.  Here's Wood Magazine's approach in the opposite direction; the work surface rolls over the saw for storage.

[Minnesota Steve]

9 hours ago, Mike Vee said:

What I'm running into is that the fence locks into a non-desired position. When it's locked it, there's a noticeable difference between the front and back of the fence. If the front measures 5-1/8" in front (from fence to the first miter channel), the back would measure 5-1/4" (from fence to the first miter channel)

 

A certain amount of that is desirable.   My Sawstop has the Biesemeyer style fence and when you lock it the back is slightly further off than the front.   This is to allow clearance in the cut so the blade isn't pinched...  but I'm not sure it's an 1/8" off... I think it's more like 1/64"-1/32"...    It's actually mentioned in the manual to adjust it that way and it's by design.

Now if it was narrow in rear than front, that would be really bad.   A friend of mine had a cheap Ryobi that would constantly lock that way, so you had to always check.

[Mike Vee]

5 hours ago, Tmize said:

The fence that comes with the rigid saw has a lateral adjuster. It's a flat head nylon set screw on the top side by the handle one each side to adjust the side to side an to get parallel to the blade. An have you check the miter slot to make sure that they are square to the blade. Marc has a great free video on tuning up a table saw to get it all square. 

Ah yes, I tried adjusting that a while back. I'll look to try it again. I'll look up this video on turning a table saw to get it square.

5 hours ago, gee-dub said:

I think you are on a good track.  I enjoy having an outfeed table that also serves as a mobile assembly table.  If it were a workbench I would constantly be having to move stuff off of it to use the saw.

The idea of a work surface to stash the saw under has always attracted me.  Here's Wood Magazine's approach in the opposite direction; the work surface rolls over the saw for storage.

 

Thanks! The one different thing about my table saw is that it has a small pedal that i can step on to pop up the wheels, so I'll have to make my desk atleast as tall as the table saw when the wheels are popped up. but I think it'll be great. I just have to finish 2 other projects before I can build my own workbench (My wife has been nagging me about this vertical garden project for the past 2 months now, but Halloween got in the way

2 hours ago, Minnesota Steve said:

 

A certain amount of that is desirable.   My Sawstop has the Biesemeyer style fence and when you lock it the back is slightly further off than the front.   This is to allow clearance in the cut so the blade isn't pinched...  but I'm not sure it's an 1/8" off... I think it's more like 1/64"-1/32"...    It's actually mentioned in the manual to adjust it that way and it's by design.

Now if it was narrow in rear than front, that would be really bad.   A friend of mine had a cheap Ryobi that would constantly lock that way, so you had to always check.

Oh, I always thought that the fence is supposed to be exactly parallel to the blade when it's locked down. I'm going to look up that video that Tmize mentioned and see if I can tune it up properly. I'm still a complete novice at this so I'm still trying to learn as much as possible.

[drzaius]

59 minutes ago, Mike Vee said:

Oh, I always thought that the fence is supposed to be exactly parallel to the blade when it's locked down.

Opinions vary on this. I go for exactly parallel, but certainly no more than a couple of thou further out on the back end. Never have the back end closer than the front. Better to err on the side of having the back too far away than any closer.

[Mike Vee]

Good to know. I'm going to go re-adjust the fence tonight (if I don't get slammed by more stuff when I get home.)

[kyokahn]

Same saw here, never had the fence issue, though I always push forward when locking it.

 

I think the only benefit to having the workbench attached to the TS is for outfeed space, but the Ridgid has slots in the back fence rail, so you can make an outfeed table that folds down hanging from the rails. Also, as I have a small area where i need to fit everything into when not in use, my workbench is lower than the TS just enough so I can roll the TS right wing over the workbench

[SawDustB]

I'd also caution you a bit on your plan to make a workbench that this saw can slide under. When the saw's in the lowered position, the saw top is at 37" from the floor. I made my workbench top at that height, and you really wouldn't want it much higher (at least for hand tools). In order to make the saw slide underneath, you'll have to account for the lift height (so add about an inch) and the thickness of your workbench top. I wouldn't be surprised if the working height of the bench ends up at 40" or higher, which would be fine for some power tool work but I wouldn't want it for my main bench.

[Mike Vee]

Very very good point. That was part of the next dilemma I was going to consider since, as you said, there needs to be clearance for the TS to slide under neath with the wheels popped up and then I have to add whatever thickness the surface itself would be. It might end up being too high for me to work comfortably (I'm only 5'9") so if it's too tall, it would be worthless for me. I might have to just compensate and have a general space for the table saw to store off to the side by itself and probably build a system of vertical storage above it.

[Mike Vee]

This might be a cop out on my part, but I was looking at this manual standing desk from home depot and I wonder if I could instead use this as my work bench and from time to time repurpose it as an outfeed table or even an extension to support longer pieces. it would also allow me to adjust the height to fit the table saw underneath when I dont need it and i was also considering expanding the table top to create a "wing" to overhang to get even more space. What do you think?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-62-in-W-x-24-in-D-Adjustable-Height-Workbench-Table-in-Black-HOLT62XDB12/301810799

[drzaius]

It's got a crossbar under it that would make it tough to get the table saw under it. As a extended support or outfeed table it should work fine, but it looks way to wobbly to make a good workbench.

[BonPacific]

Did you have any luck adjusting the fence? I have the same saw, and I have to tighten it up (using the four metal setscrews that attach the fence bar to the ends, not the nylon adjusters) every six months to a year, otherwise it develops a little too much slop.

[Mike Vee]

I'll think that it should be reasonably stable once I lock the wheels. I figured that I can always lift the bench higher when I put it away. 

I was also considering re-doing the top and maybe give it a 12" wing on each side so the crossbar should be out of the way. 

 

I have yet to adjust the fence (I've been up to my eyeballs sanding down 100+ redwood planks for the vertical garden.. my fingers feel like it's got tiny springs at the tip of my finger for the past day now

[Mike Vee]

On 11/15/2017 at 3:00 PM, BonPacific said:

Did you have any luck adjusting the fence? I have the same saw, and I have to tighten it up (using the four metal setscrews that attach the fence bar to the ends, not the nylon adjusters) every six months to a year, otherwise it develops a little too much slop.

I know it's been almost a month since I responded. I was able to finally get it to square up on lock. it took a few attempts. I couldn't adjust the fence whenit's locked down (even when the screws are loosened) so i had to slowly adjust bit by bit till it locks perfectly straight