Ash

[danbell78]

Thanks to the lovely emerald ash borer I am getting myself into a few ash logs to get milled up for lumber.  (don't worry the trees are in my neighborhood already, will be milled on sight and dried in my shed so I am not spreading the bugs around).  Question is for anyone with experience drying ash, air drying that is.  How does it act around knots and crotches?  The first two logs I have access to have pretty short stretches before hitting branches and wondering if it is worth milling that material up or not.  Current thought is to make wainscoting or similar out of these for my basement so short boards is OK.  

[Spanky]

I would cut the logs 8 ft long for the sawmill. Then you can cut the lumber back to 5 ft or so.

[Spanky]

You can’t kill the bugs by air drying lumber. It takes 135 temp for 24 hrs to kill them.

[danbell78]

Spanky - Agree that air drying won't kill the ash borers, but I am pretty sure they will not choose to live in the boards when dry either.  

[Chestnut]

I'd seal the ends of each of the limbs. They are end grain and will cause checking if not treated. They may still even treated. I believe Cremona covers this in his logging and milling videos. Depends on the lumber your looking for but i'd mill it as it sits and then cut the lumber back after it's dried. You can't put it back after it's cut off.

[Spanky]

1 hour ago, danbell78 said:

Spanky - Agree that air drying won't kill the ash borers, but I am pretty sure they will not choose to live in the boards when dry either.  

The post are black locust. 21 years ago they had no holes in them. The bugs will eat dry dry lumber.

[Spanky]

Powder Post Beetles, if the log lays on the ground for 24 hrs in the summer you will have powder post beetles in the log.

[Spanky]

danbell78, you may want to talk to Bmac. I think he, spraying his air dried lumber with a spray. I need to get some and spray my black locusts shed post too.

[martym]

I have milled several dozen Ash logs that died from the Emerald Ash borer.  In my experience even the most heavily munched on trees only have damage in the first half inch of sap wood.

I would paint the ends of all those branches. If it were me I would just have it milled into slabs. The way it is laying looks pretty close to how I would want it.  Get the largest crotch parallel to the blade so you split it down the middle. That will give you some very nice figure to play with. Veneer for book marking or some nice blanks for turning. Get the bark off it before you put it up to dry.  Sticker it about every 10 to 12 inches. I haven't had much problems with splitting or checking.  Maybe an inch or so on the ends. Bigger problems have been around the pith and some around a few of the larger crotches I have milled. 

The Emerald Ash borer moves out when the sap stops flowing. I air dry under a tarp for 4 to 6 months then in my garage another 4 to 6 months. That gets me in the 10 to 12 percent range. I know some one will chime in and say  that is far to wet to work. In my experience I haven't had any major problems. The problems I have had showed up in the milling stage. Finding stress in a board while ripping it to size ect ect.  Once milled to finished size I have found  Ash to be very stable, and its a joy to work with.

Just my 2 cents.

[Tpt life]

Yeah, heartwood consumption does not kill the ash. Cambium consumption kills the ash. 

[Chestnut]

39 minutes ago, Tpt life said:

Yeah, heartwood consumption does not kill the ash. Cambium consumption kills the ash. 

Doesn't their burrowing esentially break the phloem and xylem paths that transport nutrients? My guess never really researched it.

[Bmac]

On ‎9‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 5:39 PM, martym said:

I have milled several dozen Ash logs that died from the Emerald Ash borer.  In my experience even the most heavily munched on trees only have damage in the first half inch of sap wood.

I would paint the ends of all those branches. If it were me I would just have it milled into slabs. The way it is laying looks pretty close to how I would want it.  Get the largest crotch parallel to the blade so you split it down the middle. That will give you some very nice figure to play with. Veneer for book marking or some nice blanks for turning. Get the bark off it before you put it up to dry.  Sticker it about every 10 to 12 inches. I haven't had much problems with splitting or checking.  Maybe an inch or so on the ends. Bigger problems have been around the pith and some around a few of the larger crotches I have milled. 

The Emerald Ash borer moves out when the sap stops flowing. I air dry under a tarp for 4 to 6 months then in my garage another 4 to 6 months. That gets me in the 10 to 12 percent range. I know some one will chime in and say  that is far to wet to work. In my experience I haven't had any major problems. The problems I have had showed up in the milling stage. Finding stress in a board while ripping it to size ect ect.  Once milled to finished size I have found  Ash to be very stable, and its a joy to work with.

Just my 2 cents.

I agree, air drying to 10-12% moisture is not a problem as long as you know how to build to accommodate for wood movement.

Most borers only affect sapwood and wetter wood. Here are 2 charts I've bookmarked.

 

 

I spray vulnerable species with boracare, it will help prevent borer infestation but it won't kill them if they are already in the wood, but as you can see most borer species only affect sapwood portion of the tree.

[Brendon_t]

On 9/12/2018 at 10:09 AM, danbell78 said:

Spanky - Agree that air drying won't kill the ash borers, but I am pretty sure they will not choose to live in the boards when dry either.  

Don't be. My Ash bench material air dried a while then into a heat dome in so cal keeping temps North of 150 for 24hrs.   After a year, I found a new borer hole in the base.  Maybe not emerald, but a boring beetle. You want to kiln dry it..

[Andrew1]

10 to 12% is good in my neck of the woods. My shop is my basement, it has duct work in it. I have kiln dried lumber I bought 3 or 4 years ago that reads 15% in the summer.

[Brendon_t]

On 9/12/2018 at 10:09 AM, danbell78 said:

Spanky - Agree that air drying won't kill the ash borers, but I am pretty sure they will not choose to live in the boards when dry either.  

Bet you a bottle they do. I built my Ash bench from Ash logs I milled. I made a solar kiln and dried in there for 4 days at 130+  and two weeks ago, I found beetle holes in a leg. That e bench had been built about two years. Soanky knows a bit about milling 

As far as your question, since everyone else forgot you asked one, before saying to mill it to slabs.  I did not like the way Ash works around knots at all. It's prone to chipping out huge chunks when surfacing. Besides that, if your not kiln drying(and okay on using it within a few years), you will have a hard time keeping that lumber flat when you get it to 1/2" thickness for your wainscoting. Dry enough at 8/4 for furniture is not the same as dry enough to keep a 1/2" by 36" by 8" press flat. Those size panels, will move as they dry and they won't be completely dry.

[Spanky]

If I was using air dried lumber, I would want to cut my logs in the winter months and saw my lumber in the winter months. 

If you try to sell lumber to any of the big woodworking stores you need insurance on your lumber for bugs are they want buy from you. If you ship lumber your kiln has to be certified that it runs 135 or higher on temp. If you ship anything on a wooden pallet overseas it has to be kiln dried. Wooden pallet.

I start my kiln out on 130 after two days I go to 140 on temp and stay at 140. Day and night.

 

[Spanky]

The first 25 ft looks great. I would wait one more month before I cut it. Don’t let that one limb hit the ground first.

[Spanky]

Bmac do you hinge cut?

[Bmac]

I moved this to your Tennessee Cherry thread. Yes, I hinge cut, was planning to wait another 1-2 months, fishing season begins and I'll probable get to it by early Dec