bertmoog Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 I've tried searching for advice on how to match veneer with solid wood (when finishing) and most of the time (maple, cherry, walnut, etc.) the veneer and the solid that they start with look almost identical. In my case, the veneer and solid look nothing alike. I ordered quarter sawn teak veneer online and when I received it, the color looks nothing like the beautiful, solid teak I had. The image is after applying one coat of teak oil to each. As you can see, the solid is an orangey, golden brown, with a nice range of detail and color just like I have always seen teak. The veneer is a strange tan looking color with little variation. I sat the veneer outside in the sun for a day and then compared it with a control piece. Almost no change at all, maybe a shade darker. I'm sure the veneer was cut from plantation teak, but I really didn't expect the stark difference. Was hoping to do a wipe-on oil finish with no staining because I love the look of teak, but it seems I won't be able to get away with that. I was told that this was the best place to come for intelligent and experienced advice, I would very appreciate any ideas on how to proceed with trying to match these color-wise. Thank you so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 Such is one of the challenges when using veneer. I suggest spraying very dilute dye in successive coats until things match up. On scraps of course. I've had success with tinting shellac & brushing it on to match colors also. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wimayo Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 I suspect that the difference has to do with grain than anything else. The quarter sawn on the right looks nothing like the sample on the left because it is not quarter sawn but, either flat (plain) sawn or rift cut. It is not unusual for wood of the same species from different different trees to look different. Even so, there is a very distinct difference between quarter sawn and flat sawn. Get some flat or plane sawn veneer and they will look more similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronn W Posted October 24, 2019 Report Share Posted October 24, 2019 Since you alrady have oil on both pieces you are somewhat limited in fixing yout color problem. A pentrating stain will probably not work since the oil has dealed the wood. I think that using transtint dye in shellac, as Drzaius suggested might work. You will need a scrap piece of the veneer to use as a test piece. You can make a light color darker but not the opposite. It appears that the veneer is a cooler (greener color) so I would start with a bownish red warmer color) dye. Use just a little at a time and sneak up on your color. Be sure to measure the amount of shellac and count the number of drop of dye that you add so you can duplicate it once you find the right recipe. You may need red and black, too. This is an art, not a science. Start with a clear coat of dewaxed shellac first after the tung oil has completely dried. Good luck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertmoog Posted October 24, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2019 13 hours ago, Ronn W said: Since you alrady have oil on both pieces I'm sorry, I should've been more clear. These are just scraps for testing the oil on. Building two speaker cabinets that have the [raw] veneer on the sides and will have solid wood top and bottom caps and solid legs. Yes the veneer is a greener color especially when raw. I really thought the sun would even it out. Thanks so much for the advice. I guess artificial color is the only way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted October 24, 2019 Report Share Posted October 24, 2019 Information on teak color change. https://www.mcilvain.com/teak-decking-color-changes/ Another thing to keep in mind is that all wood is a natural product and is going to have color variation from one board to another. Even in the same tree wood will exhibit color variation. The odds are higher that the veneer is from an old growth Forrest and the boards are from the plantation stock. Though plantation lumber is a good thing as it's given optimal conditions to grow under and the forests undergo proper maintenance to allow for better lumber with fewer defects. If you wan your color to match perfectly veneer the other parts of your work with the same veneer that you are using for the cabinet. You can mess around with dyes but they will adjust and alter how the wood changes color with time and will probably make the 10 year result uneven. The other option is to accept that wood is a natural product and contains various colors and appreciate it's natural beauty. If you want a man made manufactured look a natural product may not be the best choice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronn W Posted October 25, 2019 Report Share Posted October 25, 2019 On 10/24/2019 at 12:16 PM, bertmoog said: 'm sorry, I should've been more clear. These are just scraps for testing the oil on. Building two speaker cabinets that have the [raw] veneer on the sides and will have solid wood top and bottom caps and solid legs. Yes the veneer is a greener color especially when raw. I really thought the sun would even it out. Thanks so much for the advice. I guess artificial color is the only way. No oil yet. This means that you could use stain to color the light piece. I am not sure if you can then apply the oil after the stain is dry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertmoog Posted October 28, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2019 On 10/25/2019 at 1:36 PM, Ronn W said: I am not sure if you can then apply the oil after the stain is dry. Right. This is what I'm trying to figure out currently (can't test now, at work). Since teak is oily to begin with, and this is a thin piece of veneer, much of the stain may remain on the surface even after wiping. The soilds might re-dissolve and get displaced with the oil coat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bertmoog Posted January 1, 2020 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 Well, I decided not to tint/stain the veneer. I sanded the solid teak to 220 and the veneer to 180 and then applied Helmsman teak oil to both. There is still a difference but it's not as drastic and I think I'm ok with it. Thanks for all the information. It's difficult to get the camera color temp right but still figured you'd like to see the end product. The color and darkness of the wood grain also depends on the angle that you look at it. I've never seen another wood grain act as drastically as this veneer: 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 That's a beautiful speaker and the color match between the veneer & solid wood is as good as can be expected. Even with all solid wood there will be plenty of variation. Well done. Care to share what you used for drivers & crossover? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertmoog Posted January 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 50 minutes ago, drzaius said: Care to share what you used for drivers & crossover? Thank you so much. Yes, absolutely: Tweeter - https://www.parts-express.com/peerless-by-tymphany-xt25bg60-04-1-dual-ring-radiator-tweeter--264-1012 Mid - https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-rs100p-4-4-reference-paper-woofer-4-ohm--295-369 Sub - https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-rss210hf-4-8-reference-hf-subwoofer-4-ohm--295-456 I have them tri-amped using a MiniDSP OpenDRC-DA8 as an active-crossover / EQ. The amps for the sub and mid are ICEPower and the tweeters are powered by a custom SE tube amplifier that I built. I've spent hours and hours designing complex crossovers before... never again. The miniDSP is so ridiculously easy to use and versatile, you can change the crossover points in seconds with a slope that could never be practically attained using passive components, not to mention losses, phase irregularities, amplifier damping factor, etc., etc. , that you see with passive xovers. Using the miniDSP, you can easily and quickly dial in a 20-20K Hz +/- 0.5db. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzaius Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 Very nice. I agree with everything you said about crossovers. I've done enough studying about designing them to know that it's something I don't want to pursue myself. I built some Atmos speakers from kits that included drivers & crossovers. For my big sub I used a miniDSP to fine tune it. They are such a powerful piece and cost so little. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 That is a beautiful speaker. I can see how the top and sides are slightly different but the major thing that saves you is that they are in different planes. With that separation 99.98% of people won't even noticed, in their brain it will just register as receiving different light. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyJack Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 Turn out real nice. I have 4 -MTX AA 212 speakers I keep two sheets of Macassar ebony veneer to cover them with. Future project.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkinneb Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 Wow those look awesome! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted January 3, 2020 Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 I love parts-express. I just sent an email to tech support asking a question. They were helpful and offered to replace the item even though I admitted i was abusing it. Their customer service rivals that of Lie-Nielsen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertmoog Posted January 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Chestnut said: I love parts-express. I just sent an email to tech support asking a question. They were helpful and offered to replace the item even though I admitted i was abusing it. Their customer service rivals that of Lie-Nielsen. Same here, every time I've ever needed anything, they've done it courteously: returns, questions, problems, whatever. I was trying to use the same coupon two or three times and the website said it could only be used once. I emailed them and they replied immediately that the website was bull and said just call us and give us the order and we'll apply the discount. I've ordered [ahem] thousands of dollars worth of stuff from them over the years. Quote ...the major thing that saves you is that they are in different planes Exactly. That's why I wanted to use the quarter-sawn. The straight lines IMO go better with the curved vertical surface ending into the solid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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