Help with shop layout please

[Valleyslim]

So i have done 2 shop layouts in 2 different garages and i hate the way i layout things. I'm constantly tripping over stuff and give myself very little room to work around. I would like to make this hobby into my job. I'm extremely unorganized so that doesn't help. I watched a couple videos on youtube about tips for shop layout and i did the graph paper method to try to help me move my shop around. I don't know what it is, but i start a project and never finish it. I'm not sure if i dont know how to finish it but i kinda build as i go. I think this is partly the problem. If i follow thorough plans i can finish a project.

But for now i need to focus on making my shop more enjoyable to be in. 2 things that keep me from going in the shop is: #1 i started working in a cabinet shop 6 months ago and i just dont feel like wood working after 8 hours of sanding or making shaker style doors all day. #2 The shop is a disaster and has terrible workflow. I've narrowed it down to these 2 major factors.

A little context first, I have money saved up to buy a dust collector (have a 3/4 horse power blower but it kinda struggles with the drum sander) and 8" parallelogram. I have decided to go with the Oneida Super Cell and they offer free piping layouts and thats a main reason i want to have a layout first before i have them doing a layout for 4 inch piping. Also i want to add a real assembly table which is 28" tall. My out feed/asembly table is 36" tall or whatever the height a sawstop is and assembling furniture on that is a challenge as im only 5'4, also my work's assembly table is that height and i do really enjoy building and sanding on it better than a higher surface. I've considered trying to sell my out feed table to make a smaller one but like everything its not complete. i made the frame and top and havent finished it since

I uploaded 2 images, the first being what my shop is like now. everything is on wheels and all my tools are surrounded by either wood(off cuts and materials) and unfinished projects. So first i need to finish the projects so i can move everything around. the 2nd picture is what i think is a better layout and this is where i need your guys expert opinion/advice. I am planning on building a miter station on the wall where my tool box currently is. Also any advice to help me be more productive as in actually finishing stuff would be appreciated. I am able to use the car parked area but would need to the space to park the wife's car in at night. 1 square is 1 square foot. I do not have the assembly table, dust collector, or parallelogram yet so thats why they are off to the side. Im pretty embarrased at the last 2 photos but its a mess

[wtnhighlander]

I'll offer some advice regarding space management, but bear in mind that I work in a 12x16 shed, and I am NOT attempting to make an income from it. Your mileage may vary. A lot.

I suggest taking a hard look at the type of work you plan to do, and strip away any machine, tool, or accessory that doesn't directly support that goal. Tools that aren't used on a daily basis are just eating up space, and their function can very likely be handled by some other machine.

For now, pick one of the unfinished projects, and complete it. Use up as much of the material on hand as possibke, and DON'T replace it. Rinse and repeat until the material clutter is minimized. If you work best from a detailed plan, then from this point forward, fo not start a project without one. Most of this is just a matter of self-discipline.

Regarding machine layout in the space, I would consider the parking area as "off limits". Do not expect it to be available, and it probably will be, when you need to set up a temporary work area for some project. The remaining machine placement really depends on the work flow. Using a lot of sheet goods? A large TS area helps, with infeed & outfeed support to let you break down the sheets, right off the 'truck'. If using mostly rough lumber, plan for more space dedicated to milling, and perhaps look at quality combo jointer-planers to save space. 

Can you consider combining things to decrease footprint? Saw wing router, in place of a dedicated table? If you don't need a large bandsaw, a bench-top unit can fold down into an assembly or outfeed table. Same can be said for a drum sander, within reason.

Now, things I would try if I were in that space, with the machines you show... I would ditch the large TS outfeed table. Unless you cut full sheet goods, it doesn't need to be that large, I'd make it only 24 to 30" deep. Since it needs to be the height of the saw, it can be a handy place to tuck away a planer on a cart, or maybe a drum sander.

Build a couple of smaller assembly tables at the height you like, that can be moved arou d, and placed together for larger projects.

Orient the table saw such that there is more clearance on the outfeed side, than the infeed. Same when using the planer. Those machines are not safe to reverse if you suddenly discover the work piece is going to crash something coming out. You didn't mention your plans about the 2 garage doors on the shop side of the garage, but I would probably place the lathe in front of the smaller one, to facilitate cleanup of the huge shavings piles that can build up quickly. Since the car side is available, I would probably put something in front of the other door as well, but if you go pro, being able to move in and out without moving a car first might be more important.

The last comment I have is about miter stations. IMO, they are a huge luxury in a small shop, meaning NOT a real necessity. In my small space, breaking down long stock with a circular saw is much more convenient, and doesn't eat space. All my finish cross cuts are done on the TS with a sled, for accuracy.

Take that for what its worth. I don't have your tools, and my space is different from yours, as are my work habits. Everyone has different needs.

[Coop]

On 12/18/2021 at 6:52 PM, wtnhighlander said:

I'll offer some advice regarding space management, but bear in mind that I work in a 12x16 shed, and I am NOT attempting to make an income from it. Your mileage may vary. A lot.

I suggest taking a hard look at the type of work you plan to do, and strip away any machine, tool, or accessory that doesn't directly support that goal. Tools that aren't used on a daily basis are just eating up space, and their function can very likely be handled by some other machine.

For now, pick one of the unfinished projects, and complete it. Use up as much of the material on hand as possibke, and DON'T replace it. Rinse and repeat until the material clutter is minimized. If you work best from a detailed plan, then from this point forward, fo not start a project without one. Most of this is just a matter of self-discipline.

Regarding machine layout in the space, I would consider the parking area as "off limits". Do not expect it to be available, and it probably will be, when you need to set up a temporary work area for some project. The remaining machine placement really depends on the work flow. Using a lot of sheet goods? A large TS area helps, with infeed & outfeed support to let you break down the sheets, right off the 'truck'. If using mostly rough lumber, plan for more space dedicated to milling, and perhaps look at quality combo jointer-planers to save space. 

Can you consider combining things to decrease footprint? Saw wing router, in place of a dedicated table? If you don't need a large bandsaw, a bench-top unit can fold down into an assembly or outfeed table. Same can be said for a drum sander, within reason.

Now, things I would try if I were in that space, with the machines you show... I would ditch the large TS outfeed table. Unless you cut full sheet goods, it doesn't need to be that large, I'd make it only 24 to 30" deep. Since it needs to be the height of the saw, it can be a handy place to tuck away a planer on a cart, or maybe a drum sander.

Build a couple of smaller assembly tables at the height you like, that can be moved arou d, and placed together for larger projects.

Orient the table saw such that there is more clearance on the outfeed side, than the infeed. Same when using the planer. Those machines are not safe to reverse if you suddenly discover the work piece is going to crash something coming out. You didn't mention your plans about the 2 garage doors on the shop side of the garage, but I would probably place the lathe in front of the smaller one, to facilitate cleanup of the huge shavings piles that can build up quickly. Since the car side is available, I would probably put something in front of the other door as well, but if you go pro, being able to move in and out without moving a car first might be more important.

The last comment I have is about miter stations. IMO, they are a huge luxury in a small shop, meaning NOT a real necessity. In my small space, breaking down long stock with a circular saw is much more convenient, and doesn't eat space. All my finish cross cuts are done on the TS with a sled, for accuracy.

Take that for what its worth. I don't have your tools, and my space is different from yours, as are my work habits. Everyone has different needs.

+1

If I could give you more than one like, I would. Well put! 

[Valleyslim]

On 12/18/2021 at 5:52 PM, wtnhighlander said:

I'll offer some advice regarding space management, but bear in mind that I work in a 12x16 shed, and I am NOT attempting to make an income from it. Your mileage may vary. A lot.

I suggest taking a hard look at the type of work you plan to do, and strip away any machine, tool, or accessory that doesn't directly support that goal. Tools that aren't used on a daily basis are just eating up space, and their function can very likely be handled by some other machine.

For now, pick one of the unfinished projects, and complete it. Use up as much of the material on hand as possibke, and DON'T replace it. Rinse and repeat until the material clutter is minimized. If you work best from a detailed plan, then from this point forward, fo not start a project without one. Most of this is just a matter of self-discipline.

Regarding machine layout in the space, I would consider the parking area as "off limits". Do not expect it to be available, and it probably will be, when you need to set up a temporary work area for some project. The remaining machine placement really depends on the work flow. Using a lot of sheet goods? A large TS area helps, with infeed & outfeed support to let you break down the sheets, right off the 'truck'. If using mostly rough lumber, plan for more space dedicated to milling, and perhaps look at quality combo jointer-planers to save space. 

Can you consider combining things to decrease footprint? Saw wing router, in place of a dedicated table? If you don't need a large bandsaw, a bench-top unit can fold down into an assembly or outfeed table. Same can be said for a drum sander, within reason.

Now, things I would try if I were in that space, with the machines you show... I would ditch the large TS outfeed table. Unless you cut full sheet goods, it doesn't need to be that large, I'd make it only 24 to 30" deep. Since it needs to be the height of the saw, it can be a handy place to tuck away a planer on a cart, or maybe a drum sander.

Build a couple of smaller assembly tables at the height you like, that can be moved arou d, and placed together for larger projects.

Orient the table saw such that there is more clearance on the outfeed side, than the infeed. Same when using the planer. Those machines are not safe to reverse if you suddenly discover the work piece is going to crash something coming out. You didn't mention your plans about the 2 garage doors on the shop side of the garage, but I would probably place the lathe in front of the smaller one, to facilitate cleanup of the huge shavings piles that can build up quickly. Since the car side is available, I would probably put something in front of the other door as well, but if you go pro, being able to move in and out without moving a car first might be more important.

The last comment I have is about miter stations. IMO, they are a huge luxury in a small shop, meaning NOT a real necessity. In my small space, breaking down long stock with a circular saw is much more convenient, and doesn't eat space. All my finish cross cuts are done on the TS with a sled, for accuracy.

Take that for what its worth. I don't have your tools, and my space is different from yours, as are my work habits. Everyone has different needs.

Thanks for the input. I would like to do mostly furniture. so mostly hardwood. I sometimes use sheets good but since i started working at a cabinet shop. The owner lets me use the sliding table saw and also they let me buy sheet goods at wholesale price so i can break everything down at the shop. But yeah your right, i think self discipline is where im either gonna fail or succeed at getting this going. Do people buy outfeed tables? I mean it would only appeal to sawstop users or just dump it?

[wtnhighlander]

Well, being cheap, I would repurpose it, even if it meant breaking it down and rebuilding it. But with a giant Sawstop logo on it, youcould probably find a buyer.

[BonPacific]

If nothing else that top would make some great wall art (doubling as clamp storage of course).

I'm in the process of dramatically expanding my shop, but until today I had a one-car garage shop. Flip-top tables are definitely your friend for any tool you aren't using daily. Smaller ocassional tools like grinders (if you're not a turner) should get tucked away on shelves beneath larger tools. I didn't do a lot of large furniture, so what I prioritized might not be the same as you will. I had my spindle sander on the underside of my planer, and a mortising machine (don't bother with one of those, mine is mostly sentimental storage) on the underside of my chop saw. I eventually gave the chop saw away for the same reasons highlander said, they're a luxury item for a small shop. My lathe then took the chop saw's place on a mobile flip-cart.

Rather than selling your outfeed table, what about cutting it down to be your assembly table? Two birds with one stone and all that. I've also known people to use motorcycle lifts to create a multi-height assembly table. So that might be something to keep an eye out for in your local classifieds.

The big thing I notice as soon as I look at your shop is the lack of usage of vertical space. Even with low ceilings (7' in my old shop) you can get a lot of milage out of that. Even better if you can tuck stuff up over the garage doors. While you need to minimize the amount of wood you're keeping around, what you do keep around should be put up on racks so it's not interfering with your workflow.

[wtnhighlander]

I can't find the post to reference at the moment, but those adjustable-height work tables that @gee-dub posted might be a good solution for you.

I think they were in this product line:  https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-52-in-Adjustable-Height-Work-Table-with-2-Drawers-in-White-HOLT5202BJ2/311742117?mtc=SEM-VF-F_D25T-G-D25T-025_011_STORAGE_DEVI-MILWAUKEE-NA-NA-DSA-2231655-WF-Q4_D25T_Paid_Search&cm_mmc=SEM-VF-F_D25T-G-D25T-025_011_STORAGE_DEVI-MILWAUKEE-NA-NA-DSA-2231655-WF-Q4_D25T_Paid_Search-71700000088116575-58700007476412639-39700067228078966&gclsrc=aw.ds&gclid=Cj0KCQiAzfuNBhCGARIsAD1nu-_a7rGlwrjXszoCHUQJq6gS45m2zPcH-GD75qkyBrJ83BOarCx73pEaAiGVEALw_wcB

[Robby W]

One thing that jumped out at me was that the dust collector was in the feed path of the jointer. When building furniture, especially face frames for large things like bookcases, you need at least 6 feet if feed room. A small nudge should solve the problem.

[Valleyslim]

On 12/19/2021 at 1:50 AM, BonPacific said:

If nothing else that top would make some great wall art (doubling as clamp storage of course).

I'm in the process of dramatically expanding my shop, but until today I had a one-car garage shop. Flip-top tables are definitely your friend for any tool you aren't using daily. Smaller ocassional tools like grinders (if you're not a turner) should get tucked away on shelves beneath larger tools. I didn't do a lot of large furniture, so what I prioritized might not be the same as you will. I had my spindle sander on the underside of my planer, and a mortising machine (don't bother with one of those, mine is mostly sentimental storage) on the underside of my chop saw. I eventually gave the chop saw away for the same reasons highlander said, they're a luxury item for a small shop. My lathe then took the chop saw's place on a mobile flip-cart.

Rather than selling your outfeed table, what about cutting it down to be your assembly table? Two birds with one stone and all that. I've also known people to use motorcycle lifts to create a multi-height assembly table. So that might be something to keep an eye out for in your local classifieds.

The big thing I notice as soon as I look at your shop is the lack of usage of vertical space. Even with low ceilings (7' in my old shop) you can get a lot of milage out of that. Even better if you can tuck stuff up over the garage doors. While you need to minimize the amount of wood you're keeping around, what you do keep around should be put up on racks so it's not interfering with your workflow.

yeah good idea of just cutting the table down and repurposing it, i saw your post earlier and grats on the new shop. Kinda funny too because on a side we breed miniature dashunds and will be breeding french bulldogs within a year so we are looking to buy land to eventually build a barndominium with a smaller building to house the dogs in kinda like your shop used to be About the vertical storage i have wall control, a drill station, and bora wood shelving in the junk pile, i wanted to find a good layout first before i started installing them

On 12/19/2021 at 9:12 AM, wtnhighlander said:

I can't find the post to reference at the moment, but those adjustable-height work tables that @gee-dub posted might be a good solution for you.

I think they were in this product line:  https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-52-in-Adjustable-Height-Work-Table-with-2-Drawers-in-White-HOLT5202BJ2/311742117?mtc=SEM-VF-F_D25T-G-D25T-025_011_STORAGE_DEVI-MILWAUKEE-NA-NA-DSA-2231655-WF-Q4_D25T_Paid_Search&cm_mmc=SEM-VF-F_D25T-G-D25T-025_011_STORAGE_DEVI-MILWAUKEE-NA-NA-DSA-2231655-WF-Q4_D25T_Paid_Search-71700000088116575-58700007476412639-39700067228078966&gclsrc=aw.ds&gclid=Cj0KCQiAzfuNBhCGARIsAD1nu-_a7rGlwrjXszoCHUQJq6gS45m2zPcH-GD75qkyBrJ83BOarCx73pEaAiGVEALw_wcB

this is also worth considering

On 12/19/2021 at 11:42 AM, Robby W said:

One thing that jumped out at me was that the dust collector was in the feed path of the jointer. When building furniture, especially face frames for large things like bookcases, you need at least 6 feet if feed room. A small nudge should solve the problem.

ok thanks, i was wondering what a good distance was on the outfeed of a jointer would be. also the dust collector isnt set in stone as far as location goes

[BillyJack]

If you started working at a cabinet shop a layout should be easy. Materials in, break down and moved forward and out. 

It's a simple rotation without going backwards...

[curlyoak]

All good suggestions. I would also have a small outfeed table for the table saw. I would place it near the garage door. That way you can rip longer than the walls out the door. The door opposing the garage door would be a good place for a thickness planer. It is a good weather idea because my idea feeds out the door. And that means the planner needs a small footprint. The jointer must be near the table saw. Good luck

[Valleyslim]

On 12/19/2021 at 3:58 PM, BillyJack said:

If you started working at a cabinet shop a layout should be easy. Materials in, break down and moved forward and out. 

It's a simple rotation without going backwards...

This is one of the things I was hoping to learn from them but their shop layout is pretty bad too mostly because its too small for the production we do. I have to move 2 machines and 4 carts just to get to the shaper