TomInNC Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 I just finished the mortise and tenons for my grill cart, and my plan is to install panels directly into the legs and rails on the left, center, and left-back portions of the frame in the picture below. The right side will be open with slats in the middle and top for storage. The space that would be occupied by the panels is about 20 inches wide. Is this too wide for a single panel for something that will live outside (but under cover)? Or should I add a divider in the middle to break the panel into 2 pieces? My frame-and-panel experience is limited to much smaller projects, and I wasn't finding much guidance on whether there was maximum width beyond which you should split a panel into multiple pieces. I understand that wider panels will expand/contract more than narrower panels. It is also my understanding that the panel in this case is really just aesthetic and doesn't do much of anything from a structural standpoint. Is that the right way to be thinking about this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyJack Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 The larger the panel the more it can shrink. Smaller panels will shrink less per panel.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhighlander Posted February 24 Report Share Posted February 24 So long as you allow enough room in the grooves for the panel to move, it really comes down to aesthetics. Consider that years ago, glue wasn't so dependable, so panels were as wide as a single board could be. Available materials can dictate the design, sometimes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronn W Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 If you make the panels out of 3 or 4 boards with shiplap joints (not glued) and then glue the cneter of the top and bottom of each board into the top and bottom dados in the rails it will have a nice look and you wont have to worry about movement. You can have dados to receive the sides of the panels or just but them to the legs - your choice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coop Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 On 2/24/2023 at 7:26 PM, Ronn W said: If you make the panels out of 3 or 4 boards with shiplap joints (not glued) and then glue the cneter of the top and bottom of each board into the top and bottom dados in the rails it will have a nice look and you wont have to worry about movement. You can have dados to receive the sides of the panels or just but them to the legs - your choice. Great idea. Just don’t butt the boards against each other completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyJack Posted February 25 Report Share Posted February 25 We did a lot of woodworking for restaurants with outside terraces. We never used any wide boards exterior or interior because of shrinking.. Everything we made was gapped for air flow.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomInNC Posted February 25 Author Report Share Posted February 25 Ronn, is what you are describing sort of like the bench at the link below, but with the boards oriented vertically? If I go this route, any suggestion on board thickness? I will be resawing out of 8/4. https://www.tauntonstore.com/ultimate-shaker-workbench-065190 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted February 27 Report Share Posted February 27 20" doesn't seem too much it's constrained all sides in a groove. I'd probably do it without thinking. a 1/2" deep groove leaving 1/4" gap would be more than enough. Shiplap isn't a bad idea either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomInNC Posted February 28 Author Report Share Posted February 28 I really like the shiplap idea. I just looked at how much material I have left, however, and I don't think I will have enough left to shiplap because of the thickness needed to rabbet both sides. I was looking back at some videos that I believe Chestnut suggested, and I rediscovered the TWW blanket chest build (link below). Starting around the 6:30 mark, my understanding is that he routs a 1/4 inch groove into the stiles and dividers and then fills the space with a 1/4 inch panel. If I could go with something as thin as 1/4 inch, I definitely have enough material left to finish the build without having to run back to the hardwood dealer. I tend to overbuild things, but is 1/4 inch on the thin side here? The table is plenty heavy as is, so no need to add more thickness (and weight) unless it means the panel is less likely to warp. Since the panel is housed in a groove, I am thinking that warping wouldn't be a big concern, but I have also never done this before. On a side note, based on our discussion here, I just went with the 8/4 face grain top for the sapele. Turned out great, and so much faster than laminating a butcher block. https://youtu.be/mJejS7s5MSg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 8/4 is going to be the parent material for the panels iirc. I'd take the thickness of the material and divide it by 3, 4, or 5 or how every many cuts you are shooting to get. Surface everything down until the band saw marks are gone from all parts and use that as your thickness. It's likely to be thicker than 1/4. I can usually resaw a 4/4 board and net really close to 3/8" usually .300" to be exact. Then just cut the groove accordingly. A full 1/4" panel is stronger than you may think. A captured 1/4" panel would take a hefty bump to break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomInNC Posted February 28 Author Report Share Posted February 28 On 2/28/2023 at 12:41 PM, Chestnut said: 8/4 is going to be the parent material for the panels iirc. I'd take the thickness of the material and divide it by 3, 4, or 5 or how every many cuts you are shooting to get. Surface everything down until the band saw marks are gone from all parts and use that as your thickness. It's likely to be thicker than 1/4. I can usually resaw a 4/4 board and net really close to 3/8" usually .300" to be exact. Then just cut the groove accordingly. A full 1/4" panel is stronger than you may think. A captured 1/4" panel would take a hefty bump to break. My initial thinking was that I would rout the groove with a 1/4" bit, then plane the board down to fit. It sounds like you are suggesting to get the thickness first, then microadjust with the router to get the groove thickness. How do you do the microadjustments in practice to nail the width of the panel? In my limited experience so far, I just tried to get the width of the panel to fit the size of a router bit, typically with some hand tool fiddling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronn W Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 I find it easier to cut the groove first and then thickness the panel to fit. Slightly different is to cut the groove first thenthickness the panel to be just a little too thick and plane or sand (bevel) the edges of the panel to fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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