Popular Post Chestnut Posted February 6 Popular Post Report Share Posted February 6 So in May 2021 I bought the M12 installation drill driver kit. The mail goal was to buy a tool that used 1/4" hex bits the same way that impact drivers do with a quick release chuck allowing for quick easy bit changes. I also wanted a tool that had some onboard bit holding so i could have everything i needed in one easy to carry package. More details on my thoughts can be found in this thread. In that thread i mentioned I'd give my 1 year impression. Well it's been nearly 3 years already. In the last 3 years my comments on this site have convinced a few of you to buy the tool, so TLDR I love the tool go buy one if your thinking about it. I"ll post some thoughts and details about the tool below. Functionality: The included bits like the offset attachment and right angle driver seem like fluff but are honestly valuable attachments. I have used each one of them multiple times in the past 3 years. That said they don't come out very often at all, when they come out though it drives a screw in a place you'd have never driven a screw before. The offset is less valueable than the right angle attachment but it still has marginal use cases. Torque and speed are good enough for everything I've asked it to do in the last 3 years. In speed 2 it can drive a 3_1/2" #10 screw in to a stud, but it's advisable to use speed 1. Sinking a 3_1/2" screw in first gear isn't the fastest in the world but it's not as slow as you may think. It's as fast as my 12 year old dewalt 18v impact, I checked sided by side multiple times. The dewalt impact should be faster than it is, and i'm sure the new dewalts are faster. As soon as the impact changes from driving to impact the M12 in first gear becomes significantly faster. Because it excels so much with 1/4" hex bits i rarely use it to drill holes. I have big drill/drivers for that and let them do the job they excel at, but the M12 could probably handle a 2" forstner bit just fine. I use it regularly with vix bits and it works just fine with them. A standard 2.0ah batter lasts a decently long time. I'm usually running 3/4" #8 screws with the tool so you can drive a lot of small screws before the battery goes dead. When running a lot of screws the battery will be charged before you could fully discharge a pack so you could probably run indefinitely with 2 battery packs. Ergonomics: So this is the big change. It's a D handle driver not your regular drill configuration. This requires you to hold it a bit differently as shown by Jussi in this post. I'll put the picture below I just wanted to make sure to cite the source. Instead of the regular pistol grip this is held higher up. Instead of using your pointer finger to run the trigger it's easier to use your middle finger. Holding it in this manner allows you push with your palm more in line with the drill bit to more easily provide force directly into the screw to prevent stripping. I find this far superior to the pistol grip that is common among impact drivers. Using the driver in this way allows easy access to the number 1 flaw that most cite for the tool. Additionally I feel it provides better control and better driving ability. Features: I have this in it's own section because it was this important to me. The M12 installer tool has onboard bit storage that can easily hold 2 double ended impact style bits. This meets 100% of my needs and was crucial. It really narrows down the pack to the M12 tool and Festool. Competition: As far as i am aware as i write this there are only 4 tools that really fit in this category. 6 if you count both of Festool's and Bosch's options separately but they don't add much other than offering different battery voltages for more torque. In no particular Order the options and my opinions are below. I used links to acme tool's website cause i was too lazy to dig out each manufacturers site links. Festool CSX 10.8V light weight small very limited battery platform offerings, i think it's just this tool. Dewalt Extreme 12V Max 5 Well made decent offering traditional T style with traditional controls. No bit holding minimal battery platform options. Very solid contender in the field. Bosch 12V Max EC Flexclick Don't know a lot about it, traditional T style with traditional controls. No bit holding Has decent 12V battery platform offerings. Milwaukee M12 Installation Tool See above, also probably has the widest options as far as battery platform. If you think you may want it, it's probably in the M12 line. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legenddc Posted February 6 Report Share Posted February 6 Well said Chestnut. I just picked up one of these a few days ago and have been enjoying it quite a bit. The offset has been great to get at screws close to the bottom of a cabinet or drawer slide. I haven't had a chance to use the right angle attachment yet but wanted to call out you're able to attach the other attachments to the right angle. So you can use the right angle and offset together or right angle and drill chuck. I might grab some hex drill bits to make drilling holes and using the hex bits quicker. The way you hold it seems pretty natural once you use it a few times. I find my thumb and index finger go on either side of the drill, not the thumb on top. You do have to move your hand to change the direction which I'm sure I'll get used to. I haven't had my kids use it yet but I think they will be less likely to strip screws with their hand higher up on a drill the way you hold this one. The only real negative I've found is the LED light isn't the brightest or best aimed at times, but it does works okay. It is very compact. Here it is compared to my Dewalt 20v Atomic which is their compact series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krtwood Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 There's an M12 screwdriver too in the regular drill shape. And it's under $50. Milwaukee 2401-20. If you don't care about the offset and right angle attachments and just want a direct replacement for an impact, it's all you need. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnG Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 On 2/7/2024 at 1:18 AM, krtwood said: There's an M12 screwdriver too in the regular drill shape. And it's under $50. Milwaukee 2401-20. If you don't care about the offset and right angle attachments and just want a direct replacement for an impact, it's all you need. I have used one of those a few times, and I gave one to my mother. But I would still argue that the installation driver is better, even without considering the attachments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chestnut Posted February 7 Author Report Share Posted February 7 The screw driver would have a lot more appeal if the RPM wasn't so blasted low. At 400 RPM I can almost run a screw faster with a hand tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krtwood Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 I had some thoughts about also using it for drilling pilot holes but it's certainly too slow for that. I find it just about right for screwing though, for workshop use anyway. Not the right tool to build a deck or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted February 7 Report Share Posted February 7 Very nice tool. A few months ago, I was considering purchasing one of those, but I opted for the Milwaukee M12 right-angle drill instead. The price was reasonable since I didn't choose the "fuel" version, which was significantly more expensive. The tool came in a very nice bag, similar to yours, which I repurposed immediately. The bag fits snugly under the driver's seat, where it now carries my Noco boost along with some other tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark J Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 So what's the difference between M12 and M12 Fuel? Are the batteries interchangeable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortan D Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 On 2/8/2024 at 11:07 AM, Mark J said: So what's the difference between M12 and M12 Fuel? Are the batteries interchangeable? The Fuel tools have brushless motors. Batteries are the same. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legenddc Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 There's a one-day sale on it right now at Home Depot for the Installation Driver kit (2 batteries) and a 5.0 battery for $179 Or you can get it for $199 with the same thing but have the option to return the extra battery and it's $125 out the door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpt life Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 I’ve had that kit for over a year now. I can echo most, if not all of what you said Chestnut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legenddc Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 Apparently in Europe you can get a M12 drill that has the attachments like this installation driver. https://www.milwaukeetool.eu/en-eu/m12-sub-compact-drill-driver-with-removable-chuck/m12-bddx/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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