Declining lumber quality

[bois]

I just recently started milling up some butternut for an upcoming project. I saved a bunch of money by going up to NH where lumber is less expensive (and tax free), plus I sorted through the "shorts" bin to shave even more cost off. I was fairly proud of myself until I actually started the milling process. I intentionally bought 8/4 stock so that I could resaw and bookmatch for the wider panels on a chest of drawers. However, when I split the first board in half on the band saw, I noticed the two sides almost popped apart as the blade reached the end of the cut. And sure enough, the two resawn halfs don't mate up any more, as there is a massive bow between the two sides like this - (). I then moved on to the next five boards to see the exact same thing happen. Now in case you're thinking that perhaps I didn't let the stock acclimate to my shop long enough, it did indeed sit stickered for over a month in my shop. Plus, if the inside of the boards had a higher moisture level, you would expect the two sides to dish rather than cup toward the middle - )(. What we have here is yet another example of poor kiln drying, or more specifically case harening. This is where the stock is not allowed to air dry long enough before kiln dried, or just drying too rapidly. The lumber producers are trying to churn out product faster at a serious detriment to quality. This isn't the first time I've had this problem from this same dealer (although the previous times were all poplar). But needless to say, I'm thinking about switching over exclusively to premium air dried stock from now on. I'm tired of steamed walnut, case hardening, hidden checks, and other defects that you just can't detect in the yard. While I may have saved a few bucks buying my bargain butternut, I'll end up with maybe two 1/2" thick pieces from an 8/4 chunk of lumber and a lot of extra time and effort - hardly an economically sound choice. And when I consider that the cost of stock is a relatively small component of my pricing, it just makes sense to buy the highest quality material I can. I'm curious if I'm just having bad luck, or others have seen quality on the decline at their local mills and dealers?

[jwatson]

Ah ha I have the answer maybe the butternut feared your cargo pants

[RenaissanceWW]

Let me play devil's advocate first and say that Butternut and most species in the Juglans genus are notoriously difficult to dry and quality control. Just like it's darker cousin Walnut, there are separate grading procedures just because these trees are not as hearty at the Oaks and Maples of North America. This is code for saying that the bar had to be lowered just to sell the stuff as none of it would pass the FAS, Select, and Common grades.

Now the advocacy out of the way, let me wholeheartedly agree with you. Lumber quality is on the decline not so much because there are fewer trees (this is rarely the case) but because the process from felling to lumber rack has been foreshortened too much. Additionally, the sawyer and kiln technicians have become specialized and therefore distanced from the actual woodworking. This breeds a lack of respect and experience with the material. Of course I'm being very general here and oftentimes the local sawmill got started from a love of wood and their knowledge is top notch. In lumber yards it is a different situation. There is not a mill on site and the wood comes into their warehouse as a ready to sell product (it has been sawn, dried, and partially dressed). The dealer at the yard doesn't really know what he is getting since he had nothing to do with the harvesting and preparation.

So in some cases your dealer may not be to blame as he only is selling what he bought from a distributor or a saw mill. Granted, the good dealer will do what he can to ensure the quality of his suppliers as well, but I'm discovering a lot of shady people in the lumber business who are just trying to "sneak" poor quality by. The import market is actually much better than the domestics. Wider, more subtle grading systems and the necessity to be careful in drying since the lumber travels such distances and experiences many climate changes means that there are more checks and balances on Mahogany or Teak than there is on Butternut, Walnut, and Cherry.

The internet age has opened more sawyers to more people allowing not only you and I to buy directly from them but small lumber dealers to skip the middleman distributor and go directly to those sawyers. Sometimes you find a sawyer with patience and know-how to properly dry their lumber, many times you don't and they get dazzled by a volume order from a dealer and just sell what they have in whatever condition they have. Likewise the dealer gets excited by the low price a small mill offers and buys up everything in stock to get the deal not thinking there may be a catch with lower quality lumber.

I can't say that I welcome the thought of incorporating the middle man back into the picture to add a level of price markup, but this does go a long way to regulating quality and consistency. The real truth is that the lumber yard is the bottom of the food chain in this world and the lumber you see on the rack has been culled and picked over no less than 5 or 6 times by the time you get to see it. Sawing properly for best yield is a science and properly drying is an art. My company used to operate a sawmill but we quickly learned this was not an area where we knew what we were doing. Instead today we focus on finding quality mills and building relationships with them to get their best stock. We are experts at drying and employ a mix of air and kiln drying techniques over time for the most stable lumber. We then sell this stock to yards and manufacturers. Because we are involved intimately from forest to rack we better understand what is being sold. I tell you this not as a sales pitch but to illustrate where this may break down. We have many problems with domestic species coming in to our yard that do not meet the quality grade. Many times they need to be further dried. Other times they are too far gone and we can do nothing to ameliorate the damage done. We send that load back. At that point I'm sure the mill then sells that same load to a dealer directly who isn't as picky or doesn't ask questions.

This is turning into a long rant, but my point is that the desire to get stock out an onto the racks for purchase overwhelms the quality control along the way and lack of knowledge at many levels means that an inferior product is being sold that not even the dealer knows about. What's worse is many woodworkers don't know any better either so they don't complain and send it back. I would be curious to see what your dealer will say if you took the Butternut back claiming the case hardening issue. 1. do they even know what case hardening is? 2. do they have a policy in place to ensure your satisfaction. 3. Do they know anything about the provenance of that Butternut and how it was handled, dried, etc before it came to their yard.

Your best bet is to seek out a dealer that has their hands in on the entire lifecycle. One who understands wood as a construction medium and more than just a commodity product. OK enough of my ranting now.

[Everett]

Hey Bois,

where in NH did you go? I live in Framingham, MA and have been trying to find a really good lumber yard around these parts. Best I have found so far was a place called Righteous Hardwoods in Rowley, MA.

Sorry, i know this isn't in response to Butternut, but saw you were from the area and was wondering if I could pick your brain for lumber spots.

[bois]

I'd rather not call out the specific dealer where I bought the stock. They have not yet had a chance to respond to my issue, and lumber quality aside I've found their service to be far superior to most dealers I have gone to. That being said, in the greater Boston area I've had the best luck with Downes & Reader in Stoughton. They aren't the cheapest option, but the selection is very good and I haven't had as many quality issues there. I have heard of Righteous Hardwoods but have not sourced from them before - I may have to give them a try.

[Vic]

Reading all this makes me appreciate my small town sawyer even more. He's a small one man operation that has contracts with the local tree trimming services. He has a great eye for culling the best grain from a log and nothing I've bought from him in 8/4 has been younger than 3 years old. All air dried. He has a wide variety due to the trees being domestically planted. Oh god, now I'm getting misty and need to go see him and all that beautiful wood.! I hope he's open this weekend.

[wilburpan]

While I may have saved a few bucks buying my bargain butternut, I'll end up with maybe two 1/2" thick pieces from an 8/4 chunk of lumber and a lot of extra time and effort - hardly an economically sound choice.

You know, this lesson probably applies to a lot of aspects of woodworking besides lumber quality.

And when I consider that the cost of stock is a relatively small component of my pricing, it just makes sense to buy the highest quality material I can.

My feeling is that it doesn't matter how excellent of a woodworker you are. You're not going to be able to improve the quality of a crappy board all that much.

One of the guys in our woodworking club is a local sawyer. He says that when you get good quality air dried lumber, what you are paying for is the time it takes to get it right. Sure, you could saw, stack, and sticker a walnut log yourself. But the reason to pay for that sort of wood is the same reason we don't take the time to make our own void-free plywood.

[Dan S]

Bois, do you pay more for air dried lumber in your neck of the woods? Around here, air dried (when you can find it), is 10% - 15% cheaper than kiln dried.

[jHop]

In response to the demand, has anybody else noticed the increased volume of forestry related television shows on the air these days? I usually only watch one, and have been marvelling at the volume and speed that the crews cutting the lumber need to get the loads to the mills. This is only reinforcing the underlying trend: kiln drying to speed up the process of getting wood out to the vast hordes of people clamoring for it.

I do have a question, though. Can you cut off the edges of case hardened stock, and allow for equalization within the new portions? Going back to the original resaw, for example, will cutting the outer edges of the butternut cause the stock to more closely resemble straight pieces, or will this only exacerbate the problem? (I'm feeling my vocabulary come back to me. It's not coming quickly, however, so some word usage may be misplaced. Or goofed up.)

and I realize that case hardening is not a "x percentage" of each board, but is there a rough percentage of edges that cause the case hardening? Or is it only that the outer "skin" hardens, causing case hardening? (It should be obvious by now I have little experience with case hardening.)

[konkers]

Because we are involved intimately from forest to rack we better understand what is being sold.

I find that many of the best coffee roasters and distributors follow a simular philosophy. They visit many of the farms their coffee come from and develop multi year relationships with the farmers. A lot of it comes down to educating the farmers on what it takes to grow great coffee and how to tell when you've succeeded. I'm glad that some people are taking the same approach to wood.

-Erik

[joestyles]

You must live near where they grow the stuff. They grow softwood here and I cannot buy the top stock here it is all for export because that is where the money is for the producers. Perhaps that is what is going on round where you live.

[bois]

First, thanks to Marc for adding the new wood category to the forum. Let's make him proud, and get some good discussions going here. Secondly, since hearing from Vic about his local sawyer being such high quality and also reasonably priced, I did a bit more research about potential suppliers in my area. I did come up with a few small local specialty suppliers that source purely from locally cut stock. So if someone needs a walnut tree removed, they'll take it down, mill it, dry it, and sell it. I was happy to see one supplier even had some figured maple from a tree from my own town (that would make for a great story around a finished piece). The problem, however, is that this stock starts around $20/BF for maple and cherry and seems to go up from there. Admittedly, much of this supply is flitch and figured wood, but it appears my only option for getting local air dried stock is to pay at least triple what I've been paying at the hardwood supplier. I've found that in the Boston area, we typically pay quite a bit more for lumber than in other regions, but can I really justify this kind of premium? To put that in perspective, a 50 BF project in cherry would cost me about $350 in lumber at the hardwood store, but would soar up to $1000 for the local air dried stuff. That would make a pretty big dent in my margins, and I'm not sure I could pass that difference on to a customer. For comparison, I also checked Hearne Hardwoods internet store (as I believe they air dry their stock most of the way, and just do a final drying in the kiln) and a 50BF pack of cherry 8/4 stock runs $660. Definitely an improvement, but still double what I would pay at the local dealer. So to answer Dan's question from before, yes it appears air dried lumber will cost me 2x to 3x what kiln dried costs (at least in cherry).

[wilburpan]

I've found that in the Boston area, we typically pay quite a bit more for lumber than in other regions, but can I really justify this kind of premium? To put that in perspective, a 50 BF project in cherry would cost me about $350 in lumber at the hardwood store, but would soar up to $1000 for the local air dried stuff. That would make a pretty big dent in my margins, and I'm not sure I could pass that difference on to a customer.

Sure you could -- if you are able to explain the difference between air dried and kiln dried lumber and how that makes your 50 BF project better. One way is to keep samples of air dried walnut to show that differs from kiln dried walnut that was steamed. You may not be able to pass the price difference to the same customer, but you could get a different type of customer altogether who would pay the difference.

Or you may decide that it isn't worthwhile. But there's no reason to pass on the idea upfront.

[Dan S]

For comparison, I also checked Hearne Hardwoods internet store (as I believe they air dry their stock most of the way, and just do a final drying in the kiln) and a 50BF pack of cherry 8/4 stock runs $660. Definitely an improvement, but still double what I would pay at the local dealer.

That might be a typo, as 50BF of 12/4 is also $660, so you might want to call and ask. I wonder how much of the price is shipping?

I've never been to Hearne's but from what I have heard and read, they are the top of the line.

You might find these videos entraining.

http://woodtreks.com/how-to-air-dry-lumber-stack-it-and-check-for-moisture/336/

http://woodtreks.com/john-reed-fox-selects-perfect-board-wood-lumber-for-furniture-at-lumberyard-video/412/

http://woodtreks.com/why-sawyers-plane-flat-rift-or-quarter-saw-lumber/315/

http://woodtreks.com/how-to-evaluate-and-select-lumber-from-a-lumberyard/291/

So to answer Dan's question from before, yes it appears air dried lumber will cost me 2x to 3x what kiln dried costs (at least in cherry).

Hopefully someone can point you to a local dealer that has more realistic pricing, because $1000 for 50BF of run of the mill cherry is asinine no matter where you live.

[bois]

Sure you could -- if you are able to explain the difference between air dried and kiln dried lumber and how that makes your 50 BF project better. One way is to keep samples of air dried walnut to show that differs from kiln dried walnut that was steamed. You may not be able to pass the price difference to the same customer, but you could get a different type of customer altogether who would pay the difference.

Or you may decide that it isn't worthwhile. But there's no reason to pass on the idea upfront.

I'd say walnut is a likely exception in that steaming and kiln drying does actually impact the look of the final product. But for most of the other domestics I use, the advantages to using air dried lumber are purely to me as the woodworker, not to the end customer. This would include better wood stability, less wasted material, and less time and effort in dimensioning. But I don't think I could make up the time savings in additional lumber cost nor could I pass along a cost to the customer when there is little or no perceived difference in the product. I do think there would be value in the story that goes along with the use of local sourced environmentally friendly material. I'm just not sure what premium I could charge for it yet. I'm not dismissing the idea out of hand, but the quick math I'm doing in my head doesn't seem to support those prices.

[Rutabagared]

If you have the patience and space (and your family/neighbors don't mind staring at a pile of lumber), you can buy the lumber green and air dry it yourself. Check with some local saw mills, several in my area sell direct. I've been purchasing green lumber this way for several years with no issues. I usually allow my lumber to air dry to about 20-30%, which happens much quicker than you'd think (as little as a month during summer), I then dry it to 6% in a solar kiln. (Of course the solar kiln is optional, but if you're interested I built it several years ago for a few hundred bucks. It's paid for itself many times over. The concept is simple. Google the subject. There's a lot of info available. I used the info from Virginia Tech's site).

Buying green lumber is a huge savings. I've purchased cherry (FAS) for about $1.50 - $1.75/bdft. The key is to find the right sawmill. The one I purchase from is a smaller operation, an operation willing to bother with the occasional customer/little guy. As an added bonus, the mill usually sells me lumber from the same log with no added cost. While this is a premium service for a retail lumber yard (with an associated premium price - if possible at all), it is a convenience for the sawmill - load log, cut it, stack it in a pile over there for Bois, call Bois to pick up the stack. In fact, now I just request a log. You'll get a mixed grade, but the consistency in color and figure is worth it and you'll still have plenty of FAS and cut-arounds in the common stock. Also, that lessens my supplier's hassle factor a bit as well as the price. You can always use the lower grades for web frames, backs, drawer sides, etc.

The only cons are native species availability, sweat equity, and minimum buy quantities - the mill I buy from considers "little guy" a purchaser of at least 250 bd.ft. of lumber, but when that 250 bd.ft. costs about $400 and some change, that's not so bad, is it? Good luck if you choose this route.

Joe

[bois]

Well I'm happy to report that my problematic butternut has at least settled down a little bit since I initially resawed it. One of the bookmatched pairs is almost flat again, although several still bow out from each other a good half inch in the middle across a 3 foot span. I updated my tool chest design to use 5/8" stock instead of 3/4" (which is actually a design improvement anyway) so I think I can still use this material. As for the suggestion about drying my own lumber, I unfortunately live in the city so my entire back yard is only about 1500 square feet. I pretty much have to buy and use my lumber as needed.

[Darnell Hagen]

If you are selling your work, go legit and register your business. Then buy your lumber wholesale.

[Vic]

If you are selling your work, go legit and register your business. Then buy your lumber wholesale.

The only problem with going "legit" is that you have only five years to claim a loss as a business before the IRS has a major problem with you. Of course, you can always not claim your expenses. I plan on getting a business license when I'm closer to knowing that's what I intend to do.

[Everett]

Well I'm happy to report that my problematic butternut has at least settled down a little bit since I initially resawed it. One of the bookmatched pairs is almost flat again, although several still bow out from each other a good half inch in the middle across a 3 foot span. I updated my tool chest design to use 5/8" stock instead of 3/4" (which is actually a design improvement anyway) so I think I can still use this material. As for the suggestion about drying my own lumber, I unfortunately live in the city so my entire back yard is only about 1500 square feet. I pretty much have to buy and use my lumber as needed.

Oooh, does this mean you will let me know the lumber yard name? lol

[Vic]

You must live near where they grow the stuff. They grow softwood here and I cannot buy the top stock here it is all for export because that is where the money is for the producers. Perhaps that is what is going on round where you live.

Joe,

When I built my pergola, I contracted a small lumber mill to cut a package for me. Great lumber and cheap.

[Vic]

Rob, the next time I visit my sawyer, I'll try to video some of it. He's been doing this for years and everything he cuts is air dried, which I like because I plan on learning steam bending. I've asked him before if he sells over the Internet and he's not interested, except when business is slow, he sells nice shotgun and rifle stock blanks on eBay..

[mking1@sbcglobal.net]

Bois,

I’m either lucky to live where in an area where the quality hasn’t degraded, wood or processing, or I don’t know good wood from bad wood and I surely hope it’s not my ignorance at play here. But what overall degradation I have noticed is that wide boards and not a plentiful but that’s certainty not new but the grading system for certain woods has allowed more sapwood to enter as a non-defect. Perhaps our resident wood specialists (RWW)can shed some light on this subject.

Miles.