Workshop tool decisions

[Ebrusky]

I'm looking to outfit a garage workshop, but rather then specific tool recommendations I'm looking for opinions on which tools make more sense to spend more on, and what features are worth it. Specifically I'm trying to determine between; hybrid(2hp) or cabinet(3 or 5 hp) table saws, bandsaws(2,3 hp, 14,17,19 inch, cast-iron/alum wheels), and a 6" jointer(std/parallel table, straight or spiral cutter head). All other features being equal will higher hp be noticed for an average user cutting at most maybe 8/4 oak? How about on the bandsaw resawing 6-8" oak? I'm hopping to get all three tools fairly soon, would there be a better third tool option over the jointer?(I already have a 20", 1.5 hp floor drill press) Maybe a planer or spindle sander.

I'm looking to do some fairly large projects; platform bed with drawers, a computer desk, and I'd like to make new kitchen cabinets when we redue the kitchen. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, and then I can final build the bed frame I've been promising for the past couple of years.

[usacomp2k3]

I'd say that a jointer is most useful when you also have a planer, and vice-versa.

[Ebrusky]

I'd say that a jointer is most useful when you also have a planer, and vice-versa.

True. I have thought about that, and was considering reducing the level of either the band or table saw to fit it into my budget and may still due so. But I am wondering if spending extra cash to get more hp or etc. is worth it? I figured I could make due without the planer, at least for now.

[areynoldsre]

I'd spend more money on a quality table saw and band saw. I got a cheap table top table saw and have regretted that decision. For my money I'd get a good cabinet saw (or maybe a good contractor saw). I wouldn't worry too much about horsepower - just keep your blades sharp and even 8/4 oak isn't that hard to cut (might dull your blades). Mid-range on the horsepower is good enough for the projects you mentioned. and I'd think 17" on the band saw would serve you for a long time.

You really are going to want a planner. really.

I'd skip belt, disk and/or spindle sanders if the budget is tight but they can be useful if you need to shape things.

A drill press is a requirement in my shop but I've found that a bench top drill press works just fine for most of my cabinet projects. A decent one is only about $150. and I some times use a sanding drum on it to shape small projects (worked great on a cutting board I did).

If you're working in a garage I'd strongly suggest that you get everything on wheels so you can move it around.

[Vic]

Considering you list of projects are all mostly case construction, I'd spend the most on a tablesaw. But a lot has to do with what direction you want to go toward in the long run. A Track saw might be the way to go and up the size of the jointer and Bandsaw. It really all depends.

[Ebrusky]

Considering you list of projects are all mostly case construction, I'd spend the most on a tablesaw. But a lot has to do with what direction you want to go toward in the long run. A Track saw might be the way to go and up the size of the jointer and Bandsaw. It really all depends.

While I do not have a track saw I did use a straight edge and Milwaukee circular saw to build my assembly table.(Similar to the Torsion box Marc built but I added a spot for inserting a router, and made it tilt up against the wall. Did pretty good only have about 1/8 inch sag, mainly due to the lack of straight wood to use as a building base. Dang thing must weigh about 130lbs[1.5 sheets 3/4" mdf, 1/2 sheet 1/2"] It did work pretty well so I can see the benefit, when working with sheet goods, of a track saw but for working with planks I'd have to imagine there would be several issues to overcome. Thanks for the reminder though.

During my search I've looked at several saw and different hp, and would really like to know: with the same 10" blade on saws with different hp when would you see a difference. ( Would a 5 hp be noticeably better then a 3, or even a 2 hp saw? When would you see the difference? )

[tombuhl]

Just personal experience and direction which seems similar to that you are proposing. Table saw seems to be the foundation of my experience. Three hp seems totally adequate unless... I have PM 2000 cabinet saw (bought like new, used). Besides its capability, the degree of confidence has value. Jointer (8 inch sure is nice, but space and cost might push it back on the list, I have 6-inch and it serves well) and power planer (lunch box 13 inch or so should be fine) are next. Band saw, floor model, 17 inch or even 14 inch quality machine will get good use. After that perhaps drum sander might be appreciated. This assumes you have the drill press. Bench top is fine, but I recently upgraded to floor model and appreciate it, but built lots of decent pieces before it arrived.

The above is the big power tool list. Most folks also use router(s) and router table and many of the smaller goodies. You didn't mention hand tools, but obviously you have or will get those. Some folk like to take things as far as productively possible with hand tools, while other mix and match or even go the mostly power route and use hand tools for fitting and finessing.

Have fun.

[konkers]

My 2 cents here on the table saw and jointer. I'd go with the cabinet saw if for no other reason than the trunion is not mounted directly to the table. This makes aligning the miter slots to the blade (something you really want to do) much easier. I'd go with the parallelogram jointer for simular reasons. Getting the tables coplanar on a standard jointer rangers from difficult to impossible depending on your patience.

Both of these will make your tools easier to set up and get our of your way and let you concentrate on working wood.

[minorhero]

I'll echo some thoughts others have made, and add a little detail on the planer discussion.

I like most folk built my entire workshop around my table saw. It is fundamental to any woodworking project (other then lathe work). When I start a new project my thoughts tend to go to what kind of joints I am going to be using to hold pieces of wood together and how I am going to make those joints. Probably 98% of every board I use in a project ends up being cut on the table saw at some point.

A 3hp cabinet saw will last you a life time and you will likely never feel the need to upgrade it. If that is too much money then a contractor saw is what you want. But if you can spring for the cabinet saw, do it.

Now onto fresh ground.

A bandsaw is useful primarily for 2 things. 1) cutting curves, 2) resawing wood.

Resawing wood is awesome, it saves you money, and usually time as well. That being said, if you are buying wood that is thick enough that it needs to be resawed, you are probably buying rough lumber (or you should be) and that means you need a planer. Being able to plane your own lumber will save you a lot of money at the lumberyard and will open up new possibilities for you in what kind of projects you can take on with what kind of wood you have available.

As for what size bandsaw to buy. Well that depends on what you plan to do with it. If you are just cutting curves, then a 14" 1.5 hp bandsaw will probably be all you ever need. If you want to do resawing then I would invest in a 17" with 2 or 3hp. If you want to do a LOT of resawing then a 20" with 3 to 5hp will be plenty.

If you are not sure how much resawing you plan to do then buy the 14" bandsaw with 1 to 1.5hp. A bandsaw is probably the one major power tool that you can have more then one of and not feel silly. In other words if as your hobby progresses you realize you need more capacity you can buy the bigger bandsaw and not feel like you should have bought a bigger one in the first place. That way you can have your bigger bandsaw be setup for resawing and your smaller one be ready for scroll work.

I can not advise on the spiral cutterhead on the jointer because both my 6" and now my 8" jointer have had straight blades. It is not a big deal for me to sharpen them every few months and re-install them. I certainly have not felt the need for a spiral cutter-head strong enough that I considered paying the 300+ dollar price of upgrading my machine.

So in short, buy a nice table saw (3hp is all you will ever need), buy a planer, buy a bandsaw appropriate to the work you plan to do, and 6" jointer with straight blades will serve you well.

[flairwoodworks]

I'm looking to outfit a garage workshop, but rather then specific tool recommendations I'm looking for opinions on which tools make more sense to spend more on, and what features are worth it. Specifically I'm trying to determine between; hybrid(2hp) or cabinet(3 or 5 hp) table saws, bandsaws(2,3 hp, 14,17,19 inch, cast-iron/alum wheels), and a 6" jointer(std/parallel table, straight or spiral cutter head). All other features being equal will higher hp be noticed for an average user cutting at most maybe 8/4 oak? How about on the bandsaw resawing 6-8" oak? I'm hopping to get all three tools fairly soon, would there be a better third tool option over the jointer?(I already have a 20", 1.5 hp floor drill press) Maybe a planer or spindle sander.

I'm looking to do some fairly large projects; platform bed with drawers, a computer desk, and I'd like to make new kitchen cabinets when we redue the kitchen. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, and then I can final build the bed frame I've been promising for the past couple of years.

If you don't anticipate working with solid wood, the planer and jointer are of little use. For cabinetry, the bandsaw is also of limited use unless you are resawing veneers. I don't think you need a tablesaw with more than two horsepower for sheet goods. The more power makes a difference when ripping thick stock, especially hardwoods.

Don't forget the smaller tools too - their costs add up in a hurry. Do you have good-quality measuring/hand tools and small power tools?

[jmaichel]

Ebrusky,

I think we are having to make a lot of assumptions about your current set of tooling and any budget constraints that you may or may not have. For example with a 3k budget you can get a PM2000 table saw or go all grizzly and get a jointer, planer, table saw and bandsaw. I think someone already said that there is a big difference in what tooling you need if you are going to work with mostly plywood. A little more information would be helpful.

Good Luck,

James

[BenMinshall]

In my own experience, I bought a jointer before a planer and I really should have done it the other way around. The jointer without a planer is not really all that useful. A planer on it's own, however is still quite useful. You can even get a good-enough surfacing of rough lumber by skip planing or using a planer sled and bypass the jointer entirely. Edge jointing can be done with a table saw jig or even just the fence if the sawmill's rough rip is close enough to straight.

[Ebrusky]

James, You're batting 2 for 2. My budget is indeed around $3 maybe as high as $4k, and I've been looking primarily at grizzly. Also, I generally will be working with plank(3/4") matterial instead of ply.

Ben, I can see why you'd say to start with the planer. Most of the lumber I work with is fairly well finished(faces are smooth and at least one side appears to be jointed.) So I could see using the planer a bit more expecially when using the band saw to resawing. Based on the type of finishing my supplier gets though I'm wondering if a jointer wouldn't still be a better option, it would let me square out when needed and still clean up a reason side?(I'm not really up on jointer/planer usage so maybe the jointer can't be used in this way?)

[Ebrusky]

Hey Apple Wood, I believe I am leaning towards a 3 HP table saw as you suggested. I'm having a hard time finding in what situations or what type of material a 5HP saw would make a big difference. Though Grizzly makes it difficult with only $120 separating the two.

With the other tool options I'm going with a premise, possibly incorrectly, that most lumber I'll be using will be around 5.5" in width. Given this it would seem to me that a 6" jointer and a 14" bandsaw with at least 6" cutting height would make the most sense. Would this fall in line with your experience? Do you find that you use the full 8" width on your jointer often? (I'm looking specifically at the Grizzly G0457 14" 2HP bandsaw, and G0604X parallelogram 6" jointer based on the average lumber dimension of 5.5", I have to draw a line somewhere but is that realistically to small?) On the other hand if I was able to stick with the 5.5" geared equipment I could pick up a portable planer right away(suggestions?).

Thanks a bushel Apple Wood, and I really appreciate everyones help and suggestions so far, I'm really starting to look forward to placing my orders soon.

[joestyles]

Table saw, Band saw, Planer, then Jointer. With the first two I can do roughly what the second two do well. Add a few other tools to these four and you can do most things when dimensioning wood making it ready for glue up or other processes. Hand tools and a few other things and you can do most things. I would have to say that for me those four machines are the four corners of my shop they hold the thing together. When one is down for some reason things really get interesting for me.

As James pointed out you could likely get all four machines through grizzly with a 3k-4k budget. I priced out four machines and it came to $3500 before shipping. If you live close enough to go there then taxes is all you need to add to the cost. The order was with a 3hp Table saw, a 17" band saw, a 6" Jointer, and a 15" planer. If you went smaller on the band saw and the planer you could do it for about 3k or so. The shipping for me would be $700 but I live outside the US.

Hope this helps.

[minorhero]

Hey Apple Wood, I believe I am leaning towards a 3 HP table saw as you suggested. I'm having a hard time finding in what situations or what type of material a 5HP saw would make a big difference. Though Grizzly makes it difficult with only $120 separating the two.

With the other tool options I'm going with a premise, possibly incorrectly, that most lumber I'll be using will be around 5.5" in width. Given this it would seem to me that a 6" jointer and a 14" bandsaw with at least 6" cutting height would make the most sense. Would this fall in line with your experience? Do you find that you use the full 8" width on your jointer often? (I'm looking specifically at the Grizzly G0457 14" 2HP bandsaw, and G0604X parallelogram 6" jointer based on the average lumber dimension of 5.5", I have to draw a line somewhere but is that realistically to small?) On the other hand if I was able to stick with the 5.5" geared equipment I could pick up a portable planer right away(suggestions?).

Thanks a bushel Apple Wood, and I really appreciate everyones help and suggestions so far, I'm really starting to look forward to placing my orders soon.

I upgraded my jointer to 8" for three reasons. The first is that my jointer was a used 6" grizzly that only set me back 200 dollars. It was a fine machine but I did not have a lot invested in it. The second reason was that I found a great deal on my 8" powermatic jointer and picked it up for 450 dollars. The third reason was that I had a lot of lumber on hand that was larger then 6" but smaller then 8". I also have a lot of lumber on hand that is wider then 8" but I had to draw the line somewhere.

If woodworking is a hobby you plan to stick with then you are not going to want to base your tool decisions around lumber you currently have in stock. That being said. A 6" jointer is really all you need. Face planing a board on the jointer is a nice feature, but it is not essential. A planer will get you there as well. You might want to look into used tools as well. There are some great deals out there and if you stick with machines only a few years old you probably won't have to do much if any work on them. I like buying really old machines and saving more money and then rebuilding them, but that is not for everyone.

I would be hesitant to buy a benchtop jointer. I just have not heard from anyone who was happy with the machines. They are simply too small and flimsy to give good edges. For the same money as a benchtop you can get a used 6" floor model jointer without too much trouble. Just look at craigslist and ebay for your local area. If it came down to not being able to get a table saw, planer, jointer and bandsaw all at the same time, I would dump the bandsaw first. Resawing is awesome, but a jig saw can make curves.

[Vic]

Hey Apple Wood, I believe I am leaning towards a 3 HP table saw as you suggested. I'm having a hard time finding in what situations or what type of material a 5HP saw would make a big difference. Though Grizzly makes it difficult with only $120 separating the two.

With the other tool options I'm going with a premise, possibly incorrectly, that most lumber I'll be using will be around 5.5" in width. Given this it would seem to me that a 6" jointer and a 14" bandsaw with at least 6" cutting height would make the most sense. Would this fall in line with your experience? Do you find that you use the full 8" width on your jointer often? (I'm looking specifically at the Grizzly G0457 14" 2HP bandsaw, and G0604X parallelogram 6" jointer based on the average lumber dimension of 5.5", I have to draw a line somewhere but is that realistically to small?) On the other hand if I was able to stick with the 5.5" geared equipment I could pick up a portable planer right away(suggestions?).

Thanks a bushel Apple Wood, and I really appreciate everyones help and suggestions so far, I'm really starting to look forward to placing my orders soon.

I'd go for the 3HP. You're not telling us you plan on being a production shop, nor working in thick lumber. As for what you're currently buying. I think you will find after a few years of buying pre-surfaced lumber, that you'd be saving quite a bit surfacing your own stock. Half the time when you get pre-surfaced lumber, you'll still need to joint and plane the surfaces back to flat, as they are shipped from god know where and will most times cup by the time you have them in your shop. Again, it goes back to what you think you'd like to do. I have my shop set up for 12" width. I have a 12" Grizzly jointer and actually do use the full width of the machine. He's also correct about the bandsaw. I have the Rikon 325 Deluxe and at some point will either sell it and upgrade to a 20", or just keep it and add the 20" machine.

[Sac]

I like your enthusiasm. Kind of the same way that I started out. I have been watching this topic for a while now, and I finally have to contribute. Table saw, go for the 3HP or less. Even one of the 2HP hybrids would be OK. I saw that, cause not everyone needs or wants a full cabinet saw. One thing to remember about that is the power requirements as well. 220V is necessary for the 3HP or the 5. You really dont need the 5HP unless you plan on cutting 12/4+ stock on a real regular basis. The 3HP will do just fine for just about anything though. Just go a little slower for that real thick stuff.

As for the next tool to get, this is where everybody has an opinion. Mine is, if you are only going to get a jointer or a planer, get the planer first. A benchtop planer would be a good, and cheaper place to start. With the jointer you can face joint, and you can edge joint, and rabbet if you really wanted to. But the most important being face jointing. This can be done on a planer, with a sled. then you can take it off the sled and get a nice flat board. Edge jointing can be done with a router and a straight edge, a table saw and a jig, or if the rough cut is straight enough, you could use it as well. you could even break out a good old #7 hand plane and do it that way if you would like. If you do decide to go with a jointer first, or whenever you get it, go for the 8". You saw that you only work with the 5.5"stuff right now, but there will come a time when you will want to work with something that is larger. it is inevitable.

As for the bandsaw, it is a great tool. You can really do a lot with the tool. I think that you picked out a good one there too. I really think that saw is a lot better than the G0555. You might want to think about the Rikon. WOOD mag just did a review the "Deluxer" 14" bandsaws. The Rikon and the Laguna 14" saws were rated "Top Tools." They all will do what you want them to do. The Laguna will really excel at the resawing though. It is one heck of a BS. One thing, Laguna's customer service is rumored to be not very good. I have read several things about them.

When it all comes down to it, it really depends on what you want to build and how serious you are going to be about woodworking. If this is something that you are going to do a lot, or plan to do little side jobs, or perhaps jsut a life long obsession, then get the bigger and nicer tools. If you plan to do this as just a hobby, or to do little projects, spend a little less and get the smaller tools. Or if you have the money and like nice things, just do it. Good luck..

[Ebrusky]

Hey everybody, just wanted to let you know I'm still here, just got side tracked with nearly 27 cubic yards of dirt that was dropped on my driveway Tuesday. Had to finish putting up the posts around the raised garden bed, and today filled in about 180' of compression tracks from the Bobcat. It was a bit more cleanup then I had planned on.

Anyway onto the discussion at hand: I've been reading through a lot of different manuals and a number of reviews from several Table and Band Saw manufacturers. I've come to the conclusion that Grizzly does pretty darn good with there pricing and features, and I know I was really happy with the drill press I got from them. For the Table saw I think I'll be going with the G1023RLW(3HP cabinet, Left Tilt, with router extension table). The Band saw I keep going back and forth on between the 14" G0457(2HP, 10" resaw, 3/4" max blade, $895) and the 17" G0513X2(2HP, 12" resaw, 1" max blade, $995). They are very similar but I think I'll be going with the 17" model; it can take a slightly larger blade(my understanding is, the larger the blade size the better the saw will be at making true re-saw cuts?), a cast iron trunnion instead of aluminium, dual speed options (1700 and 3500rpm), and hopefully better dust collection(2 - 4" ports instead of 1). So that gets the "Easy" stuff out of the way.

Now for that mythical third tool: (There may be a legitimate discussion about the order that I'm picking tools in, at least for number two and three, but I like the options that the band saw gives me.) When I place my order I'll be going with... a planer. So I've made that choice and now I'm one step closer to placing my order. Now the question is which style: bench-top or stationary(cabinet saw equivalent). I'll admit I'm a bit out of my depth when it comes to looking at specs and trying to compare features on these. I haven't spent the time researching planers as much as I have table or band saws. What would you really want in a good planer?(I'd probably be using a sled to simulate a jointer, and the hardest lumber I'm likely to be working with in any quantity is either white oak or maple. I'm also going to say it's safe to assume that I'll be buying rough cut lumber and will likely need to surface both sides. As I get closer to purchasing the wife keeps adding items to the "won't it be nice when" list so the number of board feet I'm likely to be buying keeps going up. )

Thanks for the help so far, and I look forward to everyones insights and tips on planer selection.

[joestyles]

I have used bench top Planers and floor models. Well looks like you spent 2k of a 3k budget so far. I would go for a 15" floor model myself there are a few there on grizzly around $1k.

[Texfire]

The Band saw I keep going back and forth on between the 14" G0457(2HP, 10" resaw, 3/4" max blade, $895) and the 17" G0513X2(2HP, 12" resaw, 1" max blade, $995). They are very similar but I think I'll be going with the 17" model; it can take a slightly larger blade(my understanding is, the larger the blade size the better the saw will be at making true re-saw cuts?), a cast iron trunnion instead of aluminium, dual speed options (1700 and 3500rpm), and hopefully better dust collection(2 - 4" ports instead of 1).

I'm not sure if you gain much in the 10-12" resaw range after you reach 3/4" width, while it's true that a thicker blade helps with resawing, more important than blade width is the ability to tension that blade. When I was shopping for my bandsaw, I found that most people suggest with a conventional blade you run a size smaller than the max width for your bandsaw and tension it one size up if you're using the bandsaw's gauge. While this might mean that the 14" is limited to a 1/2" blade, you can also get a dedicated resaw blade from someone like Timberwolf who suggests you run it at lower tensions. I bought a JET deluxe with 12" resaw capacity. I purchased a 3/4" Timberwolf for it and am satisfied with the cut quality when I used it for a 10" bandsawn box. Clean cuts with no tracking issues. However, I've not done any resawing at max capacity yet, your mileage may vary.

That said, if you like the additional features on the 17" model, it might be worth it for $100 difference in price. Just know that a 17" takes a longer blade, which is marginally more expensive.

[BenMinshall]

If you have the budget and the space I would certainly go for a freestanding planer (~15") instead of a benchtop (12-13"). The benchtops are usually about 70-80 lbs whereas the freestandings start around 250 lbs. You're getting a much more substantial tool when you jump up to the 15" class; cast iron and steel instead of aluminum and plastic. You'll also have the option to get a much quieter, cooler and longer-lasting induction motor. Benchtops have universal motors which are very loud and do not last as long. The other big difference is that larger planers usually have blades that can be sharpened while all the benchtops have disposable blades. The Grizzly G0453 is an excellent machine if you can afford and house it.

[Sac]

Go for the spiral head. I have it on my jointer and will be getting it on the planer when I do upgrade. Probably next year. I will be getting the G0453X.

[joestyles]

Ebrusky have you considered looking at one or two of these machines being used? If not may I suggest you consider this with the planer and add a jointer as well. The costs are much lower but you would have to know what you are looking for and be able to discern damages or defects that the seller may be trying to hide. I do know there are many of us here that could help to advise you if this was a route you chose to go. Regardless I wish you the best on this adventure you are taking

[jmaichel]

I'd go for the 3HP. You're not telling us you plan on being a production shop, nor working in thick lumber. As for what you're currently buying. I think you will find after a few years of buying pre-surfaced lumber, that you'd be saving quite a bit surfacing your own stock. Half the time when you get pre-surfaced lumber, you'll still need to joint and plane the surfaces back to flat, as they are shipped from god know where and will most times cup by the time you have them in your shop. Again, it goes back to what you think you'd like to do. I have my shop set up for 12" width. I have a 12" Grizzly jointer and actually do use the full width of the machine. He's also correct about the bandsaw. I have the Rikon 325 Deluxe and at some point will either sell it and upgrade to a 20", or just keep it and add the 20" machine.

I agree and disagree a little with this statement Vic. I think it depends on your hardwood dealer. The hardwood dealer in my area will let you pick out rough stock and then mill it for you that same day for only .35 extra a board foot which I consider a pretty good deal. I know that it will add up over time but not come close to the cost of a new jointer and planer for at least 5 -6 years. This is of course assuming that he has a hardwood dealer that can mill lumber for him otherwise I think you have a valid point.

James